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IAM Fleet Service topic
- Thread starter Edward
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Tim, just to let you know, regarding the previous thread I wasn't questioning whether or not Canale COULD roll West into East. I was just saying that he SAID he could, and would, which you said he wouldn't say.
West,
Tim is correct when he states that the company can't put us under the BK contract if this TA is voted down. There is a 5% chance Canale will try to get just the west to vote for the BK contract if the TA is voted down, but I believe there is a 95% chance the IAM goes back in to negotiate if this TA is voted down. That is unless there is a merger in which I think we are stuck under our TWU contract until we integrate with new company.
Tim is correct when he states that the company can't put us under the BK contract if this TA is voted down. There is a 5% chance Canale will try to get just the west to vote for the BK contract if the TA is voted down, but I believe there is a 95% chance the IAM goes back in to negotiate if this TA is voted down. That is unless there is a merger in which I think we are stuck under our TWU contract until we integrate with new company.
robbedagain
Veteran
If this TA is shot down, how long do you think it will be before the union and company come together again, especially given that the merger of DL and NW has been announced
giantfan
Senior
- Apr 11, 2008
- 306
- 0
I think bag chucker, tug slug, and wiser bud said it best when they a lot of the stuff that is posted on here is speculation. I also do not agree with the idea that there will be an influx of senior ppl transferring to PHX for retirement purposes. I work in a Fla. stn and I don't see huge crowds trying to get into here with our heat and humidity conditions and we ARE the retirement mecca.
Everyone needs to do what's best for their self and their families. I'm hoping that most (when I say most I mean the westies) can read into the scare tactics that are being posted.
Everyone needs to do what's best for their self and their families. I'm hoping that most (when I say most I mean the westies) can read into the scare tactics that are being posted.
bagchucker
Senior
I agree with ya, do whats best for yourself/family, the sad part of it is that in doing so, some of us are screwing ourselves out of possible work. No doubt it is a mess, one that has many possible implications, some of which are far beyond anyone's guess, but we just have to go with instinct on this one, because the cards are surely stacked high in this apparent poker game of sorts... Good Luck!
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Contract Update: Western Lies
There is alot of misinformation out west. I have 'packaged' factual information that opposes the inaccuracies that MR is spreading. I have quoted MR [through an intercepted email] and TB through my recent personal conversations with him. I have also put together other documents so the leaders of both PHX and LAS and other west cities can have at their disposal when informing the members. I understand someone out west voting yes based on the quick cash infusion in their check, but I will not tolerate the inaccuracies being spread by thier leaders that they hope will lead to a misinformed and fear producing yes vote.
Western Lies
Copy, post, circulate everywhere
regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago
email: [email protected]
There is alot of misinformation out west. I have 'packaged' factual information that opposes the inaccuracies that MR is spreading. I have quoted MR [through an intercepted email] and TB through my recent personal conversations with him. I have also put together other documents so the leaders of both PHX and LAS and other west cities can have at their disposal when informing the members. I understand someone out west voting yes based on the quick cash infusion in their check, but I will not tolerate the inaccuracies being spread by thier leaders that they hope will lead to a misinformed and fear producing yes vote.
Western Lies
Copy, post, circulate everywhere
regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago
email: [email protected]
Guys, RR posted a summary of the TA which had an interesting line:
"60 day rule eliminated"
No other details in regards to the 60 day rule .
I understood it to be conditional.
If it is in fact gone and you guys get a fair shake on the East, then it will be hard for a workgroup like PHX to vote no. We aren't giving up much in regards to that, but are getting a moderate sized raise. I can see why you are having problems with us lol.
He even had some scope info. Ill write it down later and share, but it sounded consistent with what both sides are saying.
"60 day rule eliminated"
No other details in regards to the 60 day rule .
I understood it to be conditional.
If it is in fact gone and you guys get a fair shake on the East, then it will be hard for a workgroup like PHX to vote no. We aren't giving up much in regards to that, but are getting a moderate sized raise. I can see why you are having problems with us lol.
He even had some scope info. Ill write it down later and share, but it sounded consistent with what both sides are saying.
Tim,
I agree with DV in LAS with regards to the language regarding outsourcing. I quote Section 1E.(e) paragraph 2, "The Company shall not, however, contract out work if such contracting out would result in a reduction in force/furlough for any employee covered by this Agreement. The section continues to say that economic reasons unrelated to contracting out work or a reduction in flights could lead to a furlough.
AWA attempted 6 months after closing cargo in CMH to sneak a furlough through and we won a grievance by PB in that station which won him months in back pay. Call CMH to verify.
I agree with DV in LAS with regards to the language regarding outsourcing. I quote Section 1E.(e) paragraph 2, "The Company shall not, however, contract out work if such contracting out would result in a reduction in force/furlough for any employee covered by this Agreement. The section continues to say that economic reasons unrelated to contracting out work or a reduction in flights could lead to a furlough.
AWA attempted 6 months after closing cargo in CMH to sneak a furlough through and we won a grievance by PB in that station which won him months in back pay. Call CMH to verify.
Jester
Veteran
Mr. REZ,
You appear to be a reasonable person based upon your posts as a relative newcomer to the board. I have asked Tim this question, but he has dodged it, so I'll ask you the same question and see how you might respond within the following scenario:
Both you and Tim have claimed that Boss Canale cannot or will not force West under the current East contract, contrary to Mr. Necigrad's claims of hearing Boss Canale making such statements. One argument has been it was be a "material change" to the East contract, but is it? If the T.A. was to be rejected in a similar fashion to the prior T.A. with the East largely rejecting the new T.A. and the West voting in favor of the T.A., then the East would have the same existing contract. However, if West was to overwhelmingly vote in favor the T.A., Boss Canale could argue that the West has spoken they want the new contract, and as the existing East contract is close to the T.A., then what is the harm to West as it was their desire to accept the T.A., especially as further negotiations would not take place of another two years? Again, East is unharmed, except they no longer have the leverage of West's Section 6 to use for East advantage in getting a better contract before the end of 2009. It is a strain of credulily to find East to be "harmed" because they can no long use the backs of the West to stand upon in order to get something for themselves while claiming to treat West as equals within this organization.
Ergo where is the legitimate harm or material change in the existing contract in regards to East?
So Ponders Jester.
Jester,
The west are IAM members and our TWU contract could not be changed for us just like the IAM could not change the BK contract for the east per the by-laws is what I believe. Remember, I am a west guy and not up on the by-laws in the east. There would need to be a vote by the west to say whether we wanted the BK contract to replace our TWU contract.
On another note, this TA agreement vote should be counted by Monday 5/12/08 and if voted down it would be political suicide for Canale to expect to win re-election in June if he put us under the east BK contract instead of going back in to negotiate.
Respectfully,
P. REZ
The west are IAM members and our TWU contract could not be changed for us just like the IAM could not change the BK contract for the east per the by-laws is what I believe. Remember, I am a west guy and not up on the by-laws in the east. There would need to be a vote by the west to say whether we wanted the BK contract to replace our TWU contract.
On another note, this TA agreement vote should be counted by Monday 5/12/08 and if voted down it would be political suicide for Canale to expect to win re-election in June if he put us under the east BK contract instead of going back in to negotiate.
Respectfully,
P. REZ
Jester
Veteran
Mr. REZ,
Why conduct a whole new vote for West as there will be a vote on May 8th and every station can be broken down on its own between those with the TWU contract and those with the IAM contract?
I'll ask again... how would have East been harmed and how has their side of the contract been materially breached?
So Questions Jester.
Why conduct a whole new vote for West as there will be a vote on May 8th and every station can be broken down on its own between those with the TWU contract and those with the IAM contract?
I'll ask again... how would have East been harmed and how has their side of the contract been materially breached?
So Questions Jester.
freedom
Veteran
- Feb 15, 2006
- 3,244
- 274
Brothers I do believe we will win this one granted LAS comes out strong , we MUST ensure a larger turnout than the last election , if your in LAS and your reading this , understand that this election could very well hinge on your station so make sure and get your people fired up and informed !
Tim I understand that you say your people on the East are a huge NO , but from all accounts that I’ve heard, it’s in no way a NO landslide . As of last week I heard of 50/50 coming out of your hubs , if that changes I doubt it would still be material enough to make a difference when you compare it to PHX and LAS (if they go all in this time ) not to mention your class two cities and our field stations . Absolutely no one who wants to vote yes should grow complacent , this ain’t over till it’s over , but don’t despair either.
Tim I understand that you say your people on the East are a huge NO , but from all accounts that I’ve heard, it’s in no way a NO landslide . As of last week I heard of 50/50 coming out of your hubs , if that changes I doubt it would still be material enough to make a difference when you compare it to PHX and LAS (if they go all in this time ) not to mention your class two cities and our field stations . Absolutely no one who wants to vote yes should grow complacent , this ain’t over till it’s over , but don’t despair either.
It's not necessarily "harm" that will be done. As was said numerous times here, to CHANGE the CBA requires a vote. Now I'd imagine that if the Company just wanted to give raises permantly, as that would cause no harm a vote might not be required. But giving up CIC (worth something or not) or extending the contract can be viewed as causing harm depending on your beliefs and thus would require a vote.
mike33
Veteran
- Nov 7, 2007
- 2,252
- 1,128
Jester,
If you work for us....call HR and talk to Bob Weston I believe. He is on the NC for the Company. He says the East Agreement is the surviving agreement
according to the NMB. How we get to the east is up to us, but it's the survivor agreement. Don't forget the TA has the removal of the COC. The west cannot
vote on removing the COC without the east vote. The COC language is in the TA. The west voting by themselves are voting on removal of Profit Sharing(
east agreement), COC ( east agreement ). Do you actually think the company is just going to put the west into the east and leave the COC and PS alone.
The west would be voting on removing something they don't have in their contract and you certainly can't remove someone elses language w/o them
participating in the vote. I know it's hard for the west but com'on. Read both contract before you try to sway anyone............
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