IAM Fleet Service topic

[bagchucker]

Feedback needed: Now that our furlough date is rapidly approaching for the station I am at, out of the blue, a stack of union "withdrawal cards" have appeared. Those who are furloughing with no "new" station of recall listed, I can see where it would be appropriate to sign one, since it is likely they are separating from company/union for good. I am taking furlough with the intent of recall at a new station hopefully sooner rather than later, is it necessary for me to fill one of these cards out to suffice for the interim period of time between furlough and recall? Looking closer at these cards, they appear to only have boxes to check that indicate permanent separation...there is no box to check for "furlough". I also inquired with agents from the previous round of furloughs a year or so ago, and they never received these cards at the time they furloughed. I was told the main purpose of signing one is to avoid be charged a "re-initiation" fee upon recall to work. Something doesn't add up here... anyone out there familiar with this and the protocol??

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
Somehow you think I don't support you, but I've never said who I will or won't support. My problem with what you are saying is that you picked the last group and you are over promising IMO. I would hope that the best people get in and do their best to change for the better for everyone.

I'm quite sure that you would be surprised if you knew who has already signed on to this platform. Nonetheless, alot of hard work remains as the ticket isn't complete. As far as the last ticket, there were some better than others, not all were bad. Nonetheless, good players or bad, they all become bad or lesser players if there is no direction, leadership or head coach. I will be leading this ticket, unlike the last ticket. My organizers became my witness in organizing, and the AGC's will be my witness in representation. It's called leadership and getting the job done.

Last time I made the decision to lead and Direct the Organizing efforts to preserve and increase the Distrcit. I think the scoreboard shows that the leadership and production I showed is something that the voters should look at when deciding if I can lead the District. I'm proud of my accomplishments on your dime. I didn't fail you then and I don't plan on failing you now. It wasn't a 9 to 5 job for me, it was a 24/7, often I worked 30 or 40 day clips in a row away from home even though I was on salary. But that's the only way to do the job, 24/7 if it's going to be done right.

At any rate, the leadership is a distinct difference between this ticket and the last ticket. Overpromising? I think you have to look at what I achieved under the authority and responsibility that I had as a District employee to answer that question.

regards,

Tim Nelson

 

[niblet]

Just like you Tim, some of us around the system work 24/7. Our phones ring 24/7 and we answer those calls all the time. Weather committee men, shop stewarts or safety committee we are committed to our members. I think AGC's should be just as hard working. Actually the whole district should have an open door policy and the phones should be answered at any time.

 

[john john]

The MBA truly was signed into law to help bring about the chance for 'more' fairness than the AA/TWA merger did. But it was carefully written insomuch that it wasn't intended to get in the way from representational disputes + internal union policies so there are exceptions in the MBA.



2. Continental/United merger: The MBA does not apply since there were representational disputes. In each case, a union could trigger a representational dispute because it had more than 35%. Notice, a representational dispute will force a choice between two unions. Correct? This will also be true with US/AMR fleet service since the IAM will represent about 6,400, and the TWU will represent around 9,000 or less. THere will be an election. Bottom line. The significance of an election is that after an election there will only be one union chosen. Thus, under the MBA, it does not apply when both sets of employees have the same union.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1586975.html

MIDWEST FLIGHT ATTENDANTS FOR FAIR AND EQUITABLE SENIORITY INTEGRATION v. INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF TEAMSTERS AIRLINE DIVISION 135
The McCaskill–Bond Amendment to the Federal Aviation Act, 49 U.S.C. § 42112 note, provides that a transaction “for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier” requires the combined business to merge the seniority lists of the two carriers' employees.
Legislatures do not mean things in the abstract; as Justice Holmes once put it, the right question is what they meant by what they said. “[A statute] does not disclose one meaning conclusively according to the laws of language. Thereupon we ask, not what this man meant, but what those words would mean in the mouth of a normal speaker of English, using them in the circumstances in which they were used․ But the normal speaker of English is merely a special variety, a literary form, so to speak, of our old friend the prudent man. He is external to the particular writer, and a reference to him as a criterion is simply another instance of the externality of the law․ We do not inquire what the legislature meant; we ask only what the statute means.” Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., The Theory of Legal Interpretation, 12 Harv. L.Rev. 417, 417–19 (1899), reprinted in his Collected Legal Papers 204, 207 (1920). What the McCaskill–Bond Amendment means is not hard to discern.
The statutory requirement that the (formerly) separate carriers operate as a single carrier matters when the carriers maintain separate businesses. Although United Airlines and Continental Airlines have merged (rather, their holding companies have merged), they have continued to operate as separate businesses, integrating their operations only slowly. Until the joint operations have reached the point that they have become a “single air carrier,” they need not merge their seniority lists. Midwest, by contrast, integrated operations with Republic, Chautauqua, and Shuttle America expeditiously; that's why it was able to give up its certificate and planes, while transferring gates and landing slots for use by the other jointly operated carriers. Midwest and Republic engaged in a “covered transaction.” The later wasting away of Midwest illustrates the completeness of the integration; it does not negate the statute's coverage.

The judgment is reversed, and the case is remanded for proceedings consistent with this opinion.

EASTERBROOK, Chief Judge.
Here is all of the statutory text that matters:

 

[niblet]

Feedback needed: Now that our furlough date is rapidly approaching for the station I am at, out of the blue, a stack of union "withdrawal cards" have appeared. Those who are furloughing with no "new" station of recall listed, I can see where it would be appropriate to sign one, since it is likely they are separating from company/union for good. I am taking furlough with the intent of recall at a new station hopefully sooner rather than later, is it necessary for me to fill one of these cards out to suffice for the interim period of time between furlough and recall? Looking closer at these cards, they appear to only have boxes to check that indicate permanent separation...there is no box to check for "furlough". I also inquired with agents from the previous round of furloughs a year or so ago, and they never received these cards at the time they furloughed. I was told the main purpose of signing one is to avoid be charged a "re-initiation" fee upon recall to work. Something doesn't add up here... anyone out there familiar with this and the protocol??

I'm not sure how your local works but an alternate would be to do an unemployment stamp. Usaually about 2 dollars a month. Some locals even foot the bill in the hopes that you are going to return to work and that keeps you in good standing. I'm not sure what the fee for withdrawl is. It was 10 dollars for that, in the past. I think if you withdrawl then you still par a reinstatement fee equal to an initiation fee. I'll have to pull out the constitution on that. Have you called the local ST and asked about your options?

 

[Tim Nelson]

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1586975.html

MIDWEST FLIGHT ATTENDANTS FOR FAIR AND EQUITABLE SENIORITY INTEGRATION v. INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF TEAMSTERS AIRLINE DIVISION 135
The McCaskill–Bond Amendment to the Federal Aviation Act, 49 U.S.C. § 42112 note, provides that a transaction “for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier” requires the combined business to merge the seniority lists of the two carriers' employees.
Legislatures do not mean things in the abstract; as Justice Holmes once put it, the right question is what they meant by what they said. “[A statute] does not disclose one meaning conclusively according to the laws of language. Thereupon we ask, not what this man meant, but what those words would mean in the mouth of a normal speaker of English, using them in the circumstances in which they were used․ But the normal speaker of English is merely a special variety, a literary form, so to speak, of our old friend the prudent man. He is external to the particular writer, and a reference to him as a criterion is simply another instance of the externality of the law․ We do not inquire what the legislature meant; we ask only what the statute means.” Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., The Theory of Legal Interpretation, 12 Harv. L.Rev. 417, 417–19 (1899), reprinted in his Collected Legal Papers 204, 207 (1920). What the McCaskill–Bond Amendment means is not hard to discern.
The statutory requirement that the (formerly) separate carriers operate as a single carrier matters when the carriers maintain separate businesses. Although United Airlines and Continental Airlines have merged (rather, their holding companies have merged), they have continued to operate as separate businesses, integrating their operations only slowly. Until the joint operations have reached the point that they have become a “single air carrier,” they need not merge their seniority lists. Midwest, by contrast, integrated operations with Republic, Chautauqua, and Shuttle America expeditiously; that's why it was able to give up its certificate and planes, while transferring gates and landing slots for use by the other jointly operated carriers. Midwest and Republic engaged in a “covered transaction.” The later wasting away of Midwest illustrates the completeness of the integration; it does not negate the statute's coverage.

The judgment is reversed, and the case is remanded for proceedings consistent with this opinion.

EASTERBROOK, Chief Judge.
Here is all of the statutory text that matters:

The MBA, IMO, is a sorta lifesaver for airline folks who aren't going to have the chance to go through a representational dispute, i.e., a union election. Even then, we see in the case that you referenced, how the IBT tried to circumvent the MBA. The airtran/southwest merger is another merger where we may eventually see the MBA invoked. As noted before, the significant clauses of the MBA will not apply to most, if not all, of the employee groups in any AMR/US combination. Likewise at CO/UA. Representational disputes will apply instead, and that will render the MBA of no affect with the superseding clause, since there are more than 35% in each craft, although I am not sure of the numbers of employees that AMR has in customer service/reservations.

regards,

Tim Nelson

 

[niblet]

Why has'nt there been any chatter in a while. I'm sure some AGC's ir district level people are watching this. Any news on contract negotiations? Any news on how ATL is going to play out? Any news on contractual issues?

 

[bagchucker]

It is pretty sad when IAM members have to resort to this website's forums to try to gather infomation that should be REGULARLY disseminated through other union outlets. It just goes to show where we stand in the pecking order of the union's agenda. I still can't get a straight answer on my simple question of the Union Withdrawl Card and who it is applicable for use by. Yes, I pay my dues, but this union DOES NOT support it's members the way they should. I'll say it again and it is quite obvious, COMMUNICATION is key, and it is a concept that is VERY lacking throughout the ranks here. The IAM DL141 is a very disorganized Lodge that is as bad as it was through the last "leadership" group... this ND crap has failed to impress me one bit. If the President were an effective communicator, then those that followed in rank would also (hopefully) be effective in communication... so that by the time it reached a field station far, far away, at least people would be on the same page! But because info never really reaches the far, far away station, one has to wonder if there even IS communication.... /crickets chirping/ "All is quiet on the Western Front"

 

[niblet]

It is pretty sad when IAM members have to resort to this website's forums to try to gather infomation that should be REGULARLY disseminated through other union outlets. It just goes to show where we stand in the pecking order of the union's agenda. I still can't get a straight answer on my simple question of the Union Withdrawl Card and who it is applicable for use by. Yes, I pay my dues, but this union DOES NOT support it's members the way they should. I'll say it again and it is quite obvious, COMMUNICATION is key, and it is a concept that is VERY lacking throughout the ranks here. The IAM DL141 is a very disorganized Lodge that is as bad as it was through the last "leadership" group... this ND crap has failed to impress me one bit. If the President were an effective communicator, then those that followed in rank would also (hopefully) be effective in communication... so that by the time it reached a field station far, far away, at least people would be on the same page! But because info never really reaches the far, far away station, one has to wonder if there even IS communication.... /crickets chirping/ "All is quiet on the Western Front"

I hear ya brother. i hear ya

 

[IAM Informer]

It is pretty sad when IAM members have to resort to this website's forums to try to gather infomation that should be REGULARLY disseminated through other union outlets. It just goes to show where we stand in the pecking order of the union's agenda. I still can't get a straight answer on my simple question of the Union Withdrawl Card and who it is applicable for use by. Yes, I pay my dues, but this union DOES NOT support it's members the way they should. I'll say it again and it is quite obvious, COMMUNICATION is key, and it is a concept that is VERY lacking throughout the ranks here. The IAM DL141 is a very disorganized Lodge that is as bad as it was through the last "leadership" group... this ND crap has failed to impress me one bit. If the President were an effective communicator, then those that followed in rank would also (hopefully) be effective in communication... so that by the time it reached a field station far, far away, at least people would be on the same page! But because info never really reaches the far, far away station, one has to wonder if there even IS communication.... /crickets chirping/ "All is quiet on the Western Front"

Bagchucker good luck in your future endeavors and you are spot on with your post. Rich is a facilitator NOT a Leader, unlike Canale who would just withhold information or dbl talk people Rich just doesn't know what is really going on in his district and his soldiers are lost without direction.Your right its very sad when you have to rely on message boards to get informationthat may or may not be 100 percent accurate. maybe the motto for 2012 should be WD12 (Wrong Direction) or mayb MD12 (Misdirection)

 

[Dog Wonder]

The sad part about all of this infighting is management is the only winner.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The sad part about all of this infighting is management is the only winner.

Dog Wonder,

Actually, the real problem isn't infighting, but "no fighting". Nada. The union leaders work with management, bigtime. All talk and all violin playing.


regards,

Tim Nelson

 

[niblet]

Dog Wonder,

Actually, the real problem isn't infighting, but "no fighting". Nada. The union leaders work with management, bigtime. All talk and all violin playing.


regards,

Tim Nelson

I agree with that. What happened to this union. NO BALLS!!! Membership is fed up.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I agree with that. What happened to this union. NO BALLS!!! Membership is fed up.

Besides, it's not called infighting, it's called democracy. If those guys did their jobs then they wouldn't have created 3 other tickets against them.

regards,

Tim Nelson

 

[Dog Wonder]

Dog Wonder,

Actually, the real problem isn't infighting, but "no fighting". Nada. The union leaders work with management, bigtime. All talk and all violin playing.


regards,

Tim Nelson

For twenty some years you have been talking about solidarity and promoting yourself.