illegal ops
- Thread starter skyflyr69
- Start date
Takeoff in ice pellets is specifically approved by the FAA as long as a pre takeoff contamination check is satisfactorily completed. Know thy sh*t before waggling thy tongue.
BTW, I noticed that you only posted this on the JetBlue board, not also on the American, regional, etc. boards. Got an ax to grind there buddy?
pit_needs_help
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I believe the only way you can go is if the conditions are different than reported by the weather observation and have a cabin check. If the ice pellets are falling you cannot take off. Several carriers have been taking-off when ice pellets are falling. It doesnt matter if you are deiced or did a cabin check.
Hey, I'm just going by what's in our FAA approved manual. It says that takeoff while ice pellets are falling is OK as long as a pre takeoff contamination check is satisfactory. If flight and control surfaces are free of contamination you can go. If not, you can't. Maybe your manual says something different but that doesn't make ours wrong. Any problems, take it up with the FAA.
767jetz
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This is absolutely correct. Moderate freezing rain or heavy freezing drizzle suspends operations for UA and I believe all carriers. But ice pellets are just a form of precip that is dealt with like snow, etc. Holdover charts specify time guidelines for continued ground operations in various types of precip, including ice pellets. Type IV fluid is the coolest thing since sliced bread, and can absorb a significant amount of freezing precip.
Bottom line is that if you've been deiced, and ANY precip is falling, regardless of holdover time, a visual inspection of the wings by the pilot is required. If it's clean you can go. If you haven't been deiced, then ice pellets are not a risk because they do not adhere to the surfaces.
The clean aircraft concept was adopted after Air Florida put one in the Potomac River. If the wing is verified clean, you can safely fly.
Yeah, 767, it's the same policy at JetBlue. There is some precip that you're prohibited from departing in, regardless of the results of the pre takeoff contamination check, but ice pellets is not among them.
An aside (not to 767, who knows the score):
I have a real problem with some posters using words like "put[ting] passengers in harm's way" and "I believe... [wrong info, etc.]" when addressing safety issues when they have no clue what they're talking about. If you're going to accuse a carrier or an individual of negligence or outright safety violations, you'd better know for a fact that you're right. Failure to do so makes us all look bad. In this case, you just look stupid but it gives the traveling public something else to worry about. They think: if the "experts" can't agree then maybe I have to be concerned as well. Problem is, you're not an expert if you're wrong. It's hard enough maintaining passenger confidence in the airlines nowadays. Don't make it harder, you morons!
An aside (not to 767, who knows the score):
I have a real problem with some posters using words like "put[ting] passengers in harm's way" and "I believe... [wrong info, etc.]" when addressing safety issues when they have no clue what they're talking about. If you're going to accuse a carrier or an individual of negligence or outright safety violations, you'd better know for a fact that you're right. Failure to do so makes us all look bad. In this case, you just look stupid but it gives the traveling public something else to worry about. They think: if the "experts" can't agree then maybe I have to be concerned as well. Problem is, you're not an expert if you're wrong. It's hard enough maintaining passenger confidence in the airlines nowadays. Don't make it harder, you morons!
ab320driver
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You should have asked your pilot that question. You know you can call the cockpit above 10,000 feet or in cruise flight. I'll take a cup of coffee, thanks! 😀
CaptianBoomer
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All:
The latest I remember is that no matter what, the FAA suspended flying in conditions of heavy snow and ice pellets, regardless of whether you do a contamination check or not. There was an additional restriction placed on snow pellets but that was rescinded.
Any blue dudes out there should reference their information notices. The only caveat there is if the hourly observation is deemed incorrect.
Boomer
The latest I remember is that no matter what, the FAA suspended flying in conditions of heavy snow and ice pellets, regardless of whether you do a contamination check or not. There was an additional restriction placed on snow pellets but that was rescinded.
Any blue dudes out there should reference their information notices. The only caveat there is if the hourly observation is deemed incorrect.
Boomer
(shuffles madly through emails and is still looking for that reference, finds only the latest QRH revision which sez it's still OK. Jury's still out. Not that I'm planning to actually take off in ice pellets anyway...)
I would hate to eat my words on this. Still, this kind of talk is *still* irresponsible. No change on that position.
I would hate to eat my words on this. Still, this kind of talk is *still* irresponsible. No change on that position.
The notice is N 8000.309, dated 10/05/05 (Google it). It clearly states that dispatch is not allowed in ice pellets. HOT's do not exist for ice pellets, and as far as this talk being irresponsible, the Notice from the FAA says it is a direct threat to safety of flight.
The option of taking off if the conditions permit (even if contrary to the reported weather) is still allowed under our program. It is then a matter of the Captain's judgement, so I'd say that posting stuff about putting passengers in harms way without knowing all the facts is not justified.
I can understand taking off if ice pellets are being reported in the metar, but clearly there are no pellets falling. The FAA says that any approval from a company to operate in these conditions should be removed from the certificate holder's program. A big risk is clear ice just after take-off that may be too severe for an aircraft's ice protection system to remove.
B
BottomFeeder
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I hope you put a "Farley" name tag on the cockpit door. That way I can get off your flight since you seem to be a cowboy.
I bet the Flight Department would like to hear your views since you know the "facts".
nycbusdriver
Veteran
For those who think it's legal to takeoff with falling ice pellets, here's the link to the quoted FAA Notice:
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/examine...nspectors/8000/
The two page notice is N8000.309.
Doesn't matter what your ops manual says. If it says you can go in ice pellets, it's wrong. The FAA trumps the carriers pubs every time.
