It is time for a new approach.

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

It is time for a new approach.
It would be more beneficial to concentrate on what you expect in the future and forget about what you have already lost. It would be prudent to define future contractual expectation and communicate these to the UNION (whatever UNION that may be at the time). This list should be compiled as soon as possible, not when the contract is close to renewal. Instead of thousands of people each asking for something different the membership needs to come up with a defined list and present it to the UNION. It needs to be made clear that if the company offer does not at least meet these minimum requirements the membership is not interested in entertaining it, so the TWU (or whoever) need not present a trash offer that does not meet expectations.

The problem with TWU is they are not held accountable for performance because there is no defined expectation for them to adhere to. It is simply acceptable for them to "fight like hell" and "get em next time" (translation: roll over and settle). They consistently tolerate breach of contract from American Airlines accompanied with the often heard quote we have all heard over and over "they can do that brother".

We live in a world of near instant and widespread communication. Let's start putting some of this technology to work and get organized. Really organized, not this facade TWU calls organized labor.

 

[Bob Owens]

Do you think its unreasonable to expect what everyone else in the industry is getting?

 

[TWU informer]

Do you think its unreasonable to expect what everyone else in the industry is getting?

I don't! But until we get rid of the Union and it's leadership that the company allows to hold union meetings er uh I meant fear mongering meetings, on company property, during company paid time, while advocating a yes vote on concessions, then we are screwed. At what point do you concede that the TWU cannot be fixed and do something that would be a "new approach"? We could use your help and every other TWU Officers assistance in getting rid of the problem.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Do you think its unreasonable to expect what everyone else in the industry is getting?

No. I think it is unreasonable, given the current state of affairs, to expect TWU to deliver what everyone else in the industry is getting. I am simply suggesting instead of taking a passive roll and letting the UNION dictate our ask and bring back trash offers we change the game plan a bit.

I don't! But until we get rid of the Union and it's leadership that the company allows to hold union meetings er uh I meant fear mongering meetings, on company property, during company paid time, while advocating a yes vote on concessions, then we are screwed. At what point do you concede that the TWU cannot be fixed and do something that would be a "new approach"?

I do not believe a new UNION will solve the problem. I do believe a new approach to UNIONS may. What kind of help did you have in mind?

We could use your help and every other TWU Officers assistance in getting rid of the problem.

I am NOT a UNION officer. I am a Fleet Service Clerk who's station no longer exist, at least for Fleet (TULE). I am no longer employed by American Airlines. I do have a transfer in but have no expectation of a future job offer.

 

[Bob Owens]

No. I think it is unreasonable, given the current state of affairs, to expect TWU to deliver what everyone else in the industry is getting. I am simply suggesting instead of taking a passive roll and letting the UNION dictate our ask and bring back trash offers we change the game plan a bit.


I do not believe a new UNION will solve the problem. I do believe a new approach to UNIONS may. What kind of help did you have in mind?

I am NOT a UNION officer. I am a Fleet Service Clerk who's station no longer exist, at least for Fleet (TULE). I am no longer employed by American Airlines. I do have a transfer in but have no expectation of a future job offer.

What do you mean by "current state of affairs"? The fact that AA ducked into BK with over $4 billion in the bank and the largest order for new aircraft in history?

Bankruptcy isn't something that happened to AA, its a manufactured crisis, a facade. A truly broke airline doesn't go out and get all new airplanes. Think about it, if you were broke would you buy a new home and a new car and expect anyone to take you seriously? Do you think if you filed for BK the court would say "thats ok, keep getting new stuff without paying for the old stuff? " C-11 is a rigged system and we never even challenged it.

There is no doubt that change is needed, but the first thing that must change is the mindset of the members who believe everything they are told by people who dont have to live under the deal when the truth which is clearly staring them in the face contradicts everything they are being told. AA survives in the same Industry as UAL, Delta, WN and others, they all face the same challenges with the exception of AA who gets labor at a huge discount because people think that its unrealistic for us to expect to get what everyone else is getting for providing the same thing.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

In 1989 after AA making record profits the TWU brought back a TA with pennies per hour raises and the loss of free medical. This offer was brought back previously and voted down by the membership. The TWU brought it back again, but without any back pay this time, and recommended a yes vote. At the convention it was decided by the membership to remove ATD director John Kerrigan as a result of the TWU's bringing back concessions after record profits by AA (Our work was also given away to fleet on his watch). Kerrigan caught wind of the move and sought the help of Sonny Hall. Hall was president of local 100 (bus drivers) at the time and he rallied all other bus driver locals to vote for Kerrigan. The ATD had asked the bus drivers to abstain from the vote so we could send a message that there were consequences for selling out the membership but Sonny Hall convinced them to vote for Kerrigan. The ATD voted him out and the bus drivers voted him in so the bus drivers decided to force him on us.(They had superior numbers but what do you expect from the bus driver union?) This shows that the TWU is NOT fixable and any kind of threat is squashed. They are in the process now of silencing Bob Owens and other local presidents who are trying to better the AMT profession. The IBT would be the same only with truck drivers dictating who will represent us. Therefore it is impossible to removed Jim Little and his hand picked minions from doing any more damage. Do you think Little would have remained as president of the ADT or TWU if we could vote him out? Unfortunatley I am in Tulsa where we continue to complain about the TWU but refuse to sign AMFA cards. I continue to hope that the Tulsa membership wakes up some time soon and signs the cards necessary for the vote. But that is the only chance we have of protecting our jobs and getting the benefits we deserve. It all comes down to Tulsa. The line has already signed the cards. It is a challenge since the membership willingly chose a fleet service clerk to be local president and an unlicensed AMT to be chairman of maint. Local 514 membership is full of sheep who will go where ever they are led. Even to slaughter. They are happy to get their free soda pop and popcorn at the union hall while they are lied to and not given the facts they need to make an educated decision on their contracts. fear is also used to sway weak minded members.
My, and those others who couldn't take the early out, retirement dreams are gone. We will be forced to work until we are too old to go out there. Our retirement has been highjacked and I know now that we will never enjoy the retirement that many of our peers will have. But there is a chance for the next generation and we have to act now. All those who are below the age of 45 and the new ones who will be hired in the future must protect themselves. When I hired on at AA it was called a lifetime job. Now it is a lifetime job. Meaning you will never be able to afford to retire.
That being said, if we are to go to AMFA we will need people to step up and lead us. Informer is ready and willing here in Tulsa and I would hope Bob Owens would be also willing. Just think how it would be to be able to TRUST your leadership. And how great would it be knowing that if the leadership didn't serve the membership then they would be voted out. Even at the highest levels!!! The only approach I can see is to tear down the whole thing and build it back up. There will be growing pains. I am not going to pretend everything will be perfect. But I can promise you that AMFA will not spend 2 months negotiating on locked bulletin boards (TWU has done this) while spending 2 weeks on pay and benefits. (TWU has spent that and less on pay and benefits) Funny thing...... I thought pay and benefits were a priority to us all. Turns out locked bulletin boards were a higher one. The pathetic thing is that it's hard to find any that are actually locked to where you can't open them easily.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

What do you mean by "current state of affairs"?

I mean pay and benefits at American Airlines have eroded over the years. There is no sign this trend will reverse anytime soon. Why would I invest more time in a company and more money in UNION dues only to lose every year?

Bankruptcy isn't something that happened to AA, its a manufactured crisis, a facade. A truly broke airline doesn't go out and get all new airplanes. Think about it, if you were broke would you buy a new home and a new car and expect anyone to take you seriously? Do you think if you filed for BK the court would say "thats ok, keep getting new stuff without paying for the old stuff? " C-11 is a rigged system and we never even challenged it.

You will get no argument from me.

There is no doubt that change is needed, but the first thing that must change is the mindset of the members who believe everything they are told by people who dont have to live under the deal when the truth which is clearly staring them in the face contradicts everything they are being told. AA survives in the same Industry as UAL, Delta, WN and others, they all face the same challenges with the exception of AA who gets labor at a huge discount because people think that its unrealistic for us to expect to get what everyone else is getting for providing the same thing.

That is I what I hope this would accomplish. Which is exactly why a predefined list of expectations needs to be presented to the TWU. The membership needs to dictate to TWU the ask instead of letting TWU dictate it to the membership. The membership also needs to communicate and be firm that nothing less than these minimum requirements will be entertained by the membership to keep the TWU from putting out trash offers by the company.

You are simply saying to AA/TWU this is what we expect. Do not come to the membership if you can not at least meet these requirements. We the membership are denying TWU acceptance of a TA that does not meet membership expectations.

 

[cf6mech]

New approach to me means a new union, until that is done no approach will be a new one. That has been proven time and time again. Is there anyone with half a brain out there disagree?

 

[Lloyd Grey]

Just reduce your expectations until you are happy as a clam, otherwise - to whatever level the lowest common denominator in your class and craft are worth. Or, go do something else.

Otherwise you will always be disappointed. Unions will never do better than they have been for the aircraft mechanic.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

That is I what I hope this would accomplish. Which is exactly why a predefined list of expectations needs to be presented to the TWU. The membership needs to dictate to TWU the ask instead of letting TWU dictate it to the membership. The membership also needs to communicate and be firm that nothing less than these minimum requirements will be entertained by the membership to keep the TWU from putting out trash offers by the company.

You are simply saying to AA/TWU this is what we expect. Do not come to the membership if you can not at least meet these requirements. We the membership are denying TWU acceptance of a TA that does not meet membership expectations.

If you would read my above post (I admit it's lengthy) you would see that the TWU international does not care what the membership wants. They were told after 2003 that we would not accept less pay and benefits for jobs again and yet this is what we have gotten from them again. This alone shows that the international is not looking out for the membership. Less pay and benefits means more members paying dues to them.

 

[Tex-Mech]

Just reduce your expectations until you are happy as a clam, otherwise - to whatever level the lowest common denominator in your class and craft are worth. Or, go do something else.

Otherwise you will always be disappointed. Unions will never do better than they have been for the aircraft mechanic.

But my sources in Austin say that you voted yes for the sellout contract, so you must be "happy as a clam". This after getting turned downed for a management job and losing out on the union job. :blink:

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

If you would read my above post (I admit it's lengthy) you would see that the TWU international does not care what the membership wants.

I read your post.

They were told after 2003 that we would not accept less pay and benefits for jobs again and yet this is what we have gotten from them again.

That is true. Yet, you are again working under a TWU trash contract and paying UNION dues every two weeks.

This alone shows that the international is not looking out for the membership. Less pay and benefits means more members paying dues to them.

I agree.

I suppose you think this situation is unique to TWU? It is not. This is what happens when you get mixed up with a legacy international UNION that is tied in with several companies. A new UNION, especially one like AMFA that is multi carrier, is not going to solve your problem. It might perform at first but, eventually it will be the same crap your seeing now.

In my opinion, there are only two ways to solve this problem.
1. Force TWU to play by the membership rules instead of self direction, which obviously is not working. Give them a predefined list of acceptable parameters and refuse to accept anything outside of those.
2. Forget about an International Multi Carrier UNION like AMFA and create a UNION of only American Airlines employees. I believe AMP has a much better approach than AMFA.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Unfortunatley the only way to change the TWU is at the convention but the international has stacked the deck against us. I would like to hear your idea for making these changes. You will always be out voted by the bus drivers and they will vote however they are told by their leadership. We can't even vote for our own representation in the ATD without them being able to vote. I agree that AMP was a better option than AMFA but there is no more AMP drive. It takes money to organize a drive and AMP gave it a shot but couldn't get idiots in Tulsa to sign cards. They didn't have enough money to continue. But a union of only aircraft maint. and related could do a lot better than any industrial catch all union. The fact is the highest paid AMTs in the passenger airline industry is SouthWest and they are represented by AMFA. We have at least 6 years to get rid of the TWU. If we don't then get ready to live under this contract for 10 years with more concessions to come after that.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Think about it, if you were broke would you buy a new home and a new car and expect anyone to take you seriously? Do you think if you filed for BK the court would say "thats ok, keep getting new stuff without paying for the old stuff? "

Yup, exactly what millions of buyers (and money-lenders who knew better) did to create the housing crisis which resulted in the 2008 economic collapse.

Next up will be the credit card and student loan fiasco. Except this time there are no hard assets (i.e. houses) to sell off.

Don't worry, Obama will fix it all. Same as the automakers bailout -- just ignore the rule of law, put the unions ahead of all other secured creditors and voila! A success story you can campaign on. Or use as your legacy.

 

[SkydrolJunkie]

But my sources in Austin say that you voted yes for the sellout contract, so you must be "happy as a clam". This after getting turned downed for a management job and losing out on the union job. :blink:

Slam.