ITT News Update: August 16, 2011

[USA320Pilot]

ITT News Update: August 16, 2011

Click here to view ITT News' Update for August 16, 2011. This video should be viewed twice to get the most out of it. Once to listen to the news report and then again to read the scrolling news, which is at least as funny, interesting, and informative as the the news report itself.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Already posted here

 

[Art at ISP]

Not for nothing, I don't find the site the slightest bit funny, but rather embarrassing to BOTH sides in this dispute. I think both sides have acted immaturely and without regard for how their actions may be perceived on the outside. In some cases, perhaps actions on BOTH sides may have the opposite of the intended effect. I think both sides bear some responsibility for the childish behavior seen here on this board and elsewhere.

Grow up and find a way to solve the problem.

End of rant.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Not for nothing, I don't find the site the slightest bit funny, but rather embarrassing to BOTH sides in this dispute. I think both sides have acted immaturely and without regard for how their actions may be perceived on the outside. In some cases, perhaps actions on BOTH sides may have the opposite of the intended effect. I think both sides bear some responsibility for the childish behavior seen here on this board and elsewhere.

Grow up and find a way to solve the problem.

End of rant.

Would "growing up" involve honoring one's agreements or not seeking to renege on binding arbitration? Would "growing up" involve not violating federal law relating to DFR and Status Quo provisions? There is and always has been only one organization that can bring an immediate uncontested end to what has been happening here and is reflected in the back and forth posts seen here, and that is USAPA. USAPA could accept the NIC, negotiate in good faith for a JCBA, and stop all of the tired old thug union tactics of seeking to harm anyone they can (pilots, Management, other work groups, passengers) just because they know they can't get what they want through legitimate and legal means. Until then, the conflict and fallout from USAPA's actions will continue.

 

[Sparrowsmom]

Something for the east to think about.

 

[nic4us]

Not for nothing, I don't find the site the slightest bit funny, but rather embarrassing to BOTH sides in this dispute. I think both sides have acted immaturely and without regard for how their actions may be perceived on the outside. In some cases, perhaps actions on BOTH sides may have the opposite of the intended effect. I think both sides bear some responsibility for the childish behavior seen here on this board and elsewhere.

Grow up and find a way to solve the problem.

End of rant.

Much easier said than done.

Childish behavior on this board is one thing, childish behavior in the courtrooms and corporate offices is quite another.

The ITT news clips are a paradoy of the behavior of a certain group that has proven to have zero integrity and displayed incredibly weak behavior in the public venues. There is no solution when dealing with such a group. Your childish remark is spot on. We have a childish group, throwing a tantrum, and holding its breath til it turns blue. All the other players are just sitting back and waiting for it to take a breath, and if it does not, it will eventually get the spanking that forces it to wail and breath.

Til then, expect more ITT updates.

 

[Art at ISP]

I am not taking sides in the actual dispute, I am saying how BOTH sides are handling it is deplorable and an embarrassment to your profession.
There are probably valid points on both sides of the fence, but everyone seems to be content to just keep fighting.

At this point what's to say that the damage is so far ingrained in the cultures that it is beyond repair, and even if integration is completed, bad feelings will continue to fester?

At the end of the day, you may ALL be out of jobs..

 

[aquagreen73s]

I am not taking sides in the actual dispute, I am saying how BOTH sides are handling it is deplorable and an embarrassment to your profession.

Question: who is on offense?
Question: who has unlimited resources to use against individuals?
Question: who has a duty under the law to represent all members, East and West, fairly?

Now, how on Earth can you reconcile the answers to the above three questions with your joint fault characterization?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Question: who is on offense?

Stevie Wonder could see the answer to this. US Airways Sr. Management. They are in court Friday and have been on the offensive for quite some time

Question: who has unlimited resources to use against individuals?

US Airways Management has access to some 2 billion just in cash on hand, so they will have the best legal counsel money can buy.

Question: who has a duty under the law to represent all members, East and West, fairly?

USAPA, and sadly the definition of what's fair is being adjudicated by I don't know how many lawsuits now. We hear about "Ripeness" well the whole mess is over ripe as it stinks.

Now, how on Earth can you reconcile the answers to the above three questions with your joint fault characterization?

Pretty easily. From US Management to the lowest person on the pilot seniority list the whole process has been done in by Greed. IMO, Doug Parker had a very narrow window of opportunity in which to exert real leadership. A deal was doable. But no he refused to look up from his spread sheet telling him it would be cheaper and better for the executive team bonus pool for their not to be a resolution.

To date the only people who have benefited are Lee Seham & Jerry Glass. Those two are backing up the Brinks truck on pay day. Watching this squabble explode has made me lose a lot of respect for Parker and all of the pilots. I never expected this from a profession I admired and respected. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[luvn737s]

The process was designed to be seen through to completion, not usurped by a group that had majority numbers but no ability to lead.

 

[SparrowHawk]

The process was designed to be seen through to completion, not usurped by a group that had majority numbers but no ability to lead.

Do you agree that in the very very beginning a deal would have been possible with some leadership and guidance?

Look I don't think anyone thought the folks on the East would dig in like they have. I'm open to opinion to the contrary, however it is my feeling that had Parker inserted himself into the mix early on, we probably wouldn't be here right now or at least not on this topic

 

[CallawayGolf]

Do you agree that in the very very beginning a deal would have been possible with some leadership and guidance?

Look I don't think anyone thought the folks on the East would dig in like they have. I'm open to opinion to the contrary, however it is my feeling that had Parker inserted himself into the mix early on, we probably wouldn't be here right now or at least not on this topic

There was leadership and guidance in the beginning. This came through two documents: the Transition Agreement and the Joint Statement on Labor Principles. The problem is that the east pilots thought (and still do) that those documents do not apply to them and they can therefore use their majority position to attain that which could not be negotiated or awarded via binding arbitration. If the majority on the 9th viewed ripeness the way Wake and Bybee saw it, this wouldn't be an issue. Now the wheels of justice are spinning, but they turn at an interminably slow pace. The battle is now being waged in multiple theaters and USAPA is ill-equipped to hold on to even the only thing they have left - delay. It seems very, very likely that first a judge in CLT will pin USAPA to the wall while a judge in PHX will put the final nail in USAPA mis-information campaign coffin.

 

[SparrowHawk]

There was leadership and guidance in the beginning. This came through two documents: the Transition Agreement and the Joint Statement on Labor Principles. The problem is that the east pilots thought (and still do) that those documents do not apply to them and they can therefore use their majority position to attain that which could not be negotiated or awarded via binding arbitration. If the majority on the 9th viewed ripeness the way Wake and Bybee saw it, this would be an issue. Now the wheels of justice are spinning, but they turn at an interminably slow pace. The battle is now being waged in multiple theaters and USAPA is ill-equipped to hold on to even the only thing they have left - delay. It seems very, very likely that first a judge in CLT will pin USAPA to the wall while a judge in PHX will put the final nail in USAPA mis-information campaign coffin.

I get your point, however my recollection is a bit different. For now at least I'll concede the Transition Agreement and Joint Statement as demonstration of leadership. I do reserve the right to revise and extend my remarks.

I do agree that delay is often a sound legal strategy so you really can't fault USAPA there. That tactic though is usually done by the litigant with the deeper pockets which would be US obviously. Trying to get through the courts what you can't negotiate is kind of slimy but not illegal.

The whole ripeness thing is about my pay grade so I'll defer to those who do at least profess to know.

As you point out the wheels of justice have started to roll more quickly and we will see in bold relief who is legally correct and who isn't. This hearing on the 19th I can't handicap as we don't know for certain what cards USAPA is holding if any. What is certain is that if USAPA loses it's a game changer for sure as they IMO can't continue financially no matter the merit of their claims.

My "Gut" tells me that this whole situation was avoidable had cooler heads prevailed before the Nicolau Arbitration.

I yield back the balance of my time

 

[CallawayGolf]

I do agree that delay is often a sound legal strategy so you really can't fault USAPA there. That tactic though is usually done by the litigant with the deeper pockets which would be US obviously. Trying to get through the courts what you can't negotiate is kind of slimy but not illegal.

I yield back the balance of my time

Several points of response on this paragraph. First, delay may be a sound legal strategy in certain contexts, but in USAPA's case they have a federally-mandated duty to negotiate for a JCBA. Intentionally delaying negotiations would be a violation of that duty and it would therefore be considered illegal. Now that the NMB is involved in negotiations USAPA is forced to walk a very thin line between continuing their delay tactics to avoid the NIC and proving that they fulfilling their duty to use their best efforts to attain a new contract for all pilots. Bad faith is nearly impossible to prove because the concept is so poorly defined. However, if there ever was a CBA that had engaged in bad-faith negotiations, USAPA is it.

Management isn't the source of the delay. The DJ matter filed in PHX district court proves that. Management, not USAPA, was forced to seek judicial relief over section 22 seniority because USAPA had taken a very illogical and perhaps illegal view of the 9th circuit ruling on lack of ripeness. USAPA was trying to get Management to collude in their breach of the TA and management wisely refused to go along and open the Company up to costly litigation by the west pilots.

What would you do as CEO and as a fiduciary of US Airways if you were faced with the choice of accepting a DOH proposal that had already been proven to be a DFR liability loser for the union based on the merits of the case? Would you accept DOH and put the company at risk in a hybrid-DFR claim or would you tell USAPA that the NIC is the only list you will accept knowing that USAPA has already threatened a work stoppage action if you took that hard-line leadership approach? We know what Management and the BOD did in response to this, they filed a DJ asking for relief so that they could proceed with timely and necessary negotiations for a long-overdue JCBA, but what would you do?

 

[SparrowHawk]

What would you do as CEO and as a fiduciary of US Airways if you were faced with the choice of accepting a DOH proposal that had already been proven to be a DFR liability loser for the union based on the merits of the case? Would you accept DOH and put the company at risk in a hybrid-DFR claim or would you tell USAPA that the NIC is the only list you will accept knowing that USAPA has already threatened a work stoppage action if you took that hard-line leadership approach? We know what Management and the BOD did in response to this, they filed a DJ asking for relief so that they could proceed with timely and necessary negotiations for a long-overdue JCBA, but what would you do?

Well once it got to NIC it was to late for a CEO to do anymore than Parker did. He acted appropriately as you pointed out. You asked what I would have done as CEO at Merger time?

I would have performed a great deal of investigating US ALPA. It was a rancorous 4 years prior to the merger with tons of union infighting. I would have paid private investigators to give me as CEO the lay of the land. Who the players were, their views. To me the militants at US ALPA wanted out due to the pension give back. IMO they were spoiling for a fight and anyone would do. I'd do the same with HP ALPA.

Once I got all the players identified I'd have invited them to Tempe for a "Sit Down". Glass, Harbison, Hemingway and the CEO would represent US and I'd make it clear that if they want significant contract improvements they'd best get it done and done quick especially the seniority integration. I'd tell them point blank, "If I don't get an integrated seniority list in xx days then there will issues for the foreseeable future. Having an integrated operation is critical to our success and if I have to hire Jerry then I will and you know how that went last time"

I would have set the tone that we're willing to work with you but only for a certain period. Now maybe I'm naive here, but when I managed people, most still had enough respect that if I was honest with them and clearly outlined my expectation with a deadline, people usually would rise to the occasion and I think it would have happened here.