I''ve changed my mind, voting YES

Hopeful

Veteran
Dec 21, 2002
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WOW! Bags! I didn''t know you were that easy! Just think, AA would have alot more cash on hand if they didn''t purchase TWA and you wouldn''t be buckling right now!
 

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
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goldwatermiller08.com
TWA or not, we would be in nearly the same spot. I wish it was so easy as to point to TW as being the source of all our woes. Sadly, the economy, cheap fares, further lagging economys through out Central and South America, a war in Iraq, SARS fears all through out Asia and system with far ro many seats chasing to few passengers. All add up to the situation we are in now.
 
B

bagsmasher

Guest
Our local president and crew are in town to explain our options. After hearing them out, I''ve changed my mind, and am now going to vote YES. The reason I will vote YES isn''t for my own interests. I don''t care if I lose my job, I''ve already taken steps toward a promising career change. The reason I''m voting YES is for all my friends and co-workers at AA who want the company to survive, and to provide a living for their families.

Before you vote NO, take time to read this:

http://twuatd.org/1113c.pdf

If the company were to ask for these changes, I believe that more than 50% of my friends and co-workers would be losing their jobs, with very little chance of ever getting them back. The other 50% that happened to keep their jobs would be very unhappy with their jobs.

Another thing is that our Local is telling us that AA is laying off 416 FSC''s on May 2nd, and the union has waived the $12,500 for these layoffs. They will still be able to exercise their seniority, and recieve moving expenses to their new station, but no $12,500.

From what I could tell, it seems as the union and the Company worked very hard to come together on an agreement in order to save the company, and if it works, I think relations between the two will be greatly improved in the future.

It''s time to quit being mad, and face the reality of our current situation. VOTE YES.
 
OP
Hopeful

Hopeful

Veteran
Dec 21, 2002
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I did not blame our current predicament on TWA. But you have to admit had we not purchased them, AA would have alot more cash on hand. That''s all!
 

RV4

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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bagsmasher:

Your post translated...

..."I'M VOTING YES BECAUSE I AM OVERCOME WITH COMPANY UNION FEAR"

"I WISH TO LEAD ALL WAGES OF INDUSTRY BACKWARDS"

So how much are you willing to give so that your firends can be paid to move?

Maybe the TWU should return and extract more from the FEARFUL fools.

And how much cozier could a union and company possibly get?

THANK YOU
 

FWAAA

Veteran
Jan 5, 2003
10,251
3,900
----------------
On 4/5/2003 3:36:12 PM Hopeful wrote:

I did not blame our current predicament on TWA. But you have to admit had we not purchased them, AA would have alot more cash on hand. That''s all!

----------------​

True enough. And I''ll bet my house that had anybody at AA management known/suspected/guessed/had any idea at all as of January 5, 2001 that:

1. Terrorists would fly two AA jets into the WTC and Pentagon on September 11;

2. AA would lose several billion dollars during 2001 and 2002, with nothing but losses for the forseeable future;

3. AA would burn $5 - $10 million per day during all of 2002;

4. We would invade Iraq in March 2003, causing International bookings and revenue to plummet;

5. That both USAir and UAL would be in bankruptcy during late 2002 instead of merged;

Then you can be 100% guaranteed certain that Carty would not have purchased TWA.

I only hope that if AA survives, perhaps by 2009 or 2012 or maybe even 2025, AA employees will just shut the hell up about the "mistake" that was the TWA acquisition.

Give it a rest already. Do you people hold mistakes over your friends'' and relatives'' heads forever?? Especially decisions that were brilliant at the time made and only really became mistakes due to changed circumstances (that were out of their control)??

How many years will people keep bitching and whining about TWA?
 

rampguy

Advanced
Aug 21, 2002
116
0
----------------
On 4/5/2003 4:03:50 PM RV4 wrote:


bagsmasher:

Your post translated...

..."I''M  VOTING YES BECAUSE I AM OVERCOME WITH COMPANY UNION FEAR"

"I WISH TO LEAD ALL WAGES OF INDUSTRY BACKWARDS"

So how much are you willing to give so that your firends can be paid to move?

Maybe the TWU should return and extract more from the FEARFUL fools.

And how much cozier could a union and company possibly get?

THANK YOU

----------------​

Now you come over to this topic with more bullying. He stated his position but rather than accept his word, you inject your own translation. How about this Dave, you vote no and let others decide for themselves. Kinda simple isn''t it?
 

xlurker

Member
Apr 4, 2003
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www.usaviation.com
Jeez - How many Airlines bought TWA?

Most of them I guess, if that is the cause of their financial situations.

Have you ever made a decision and later found out it was probably not the best decision to make?

I would be willing to bet the latest TWU contract was just as bad of a business decision as buying TWA.

Don''t hear much whining about that.
 

RV4

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,885
80
www.usaviation.com
----------------
On 4/5/2003 7:14:03 PM rampguy wrote:


Now you come over to this topic with more bullying. He stated his position but rather than accept his word, you inject your own translation. How about this Dave, you vote no and let others decide for themselves. Kinda simple isn''t it?


----------------​
And you are WHO?
 

ual06

Senior
Aug 30, 2002
331
0
----------
On 4/52003 6:36:03 PM FWAAA wrote:
---
How many years will people keep bitching and whining about TWA?
-----------

Many years ago, I believe it was about 1956, United Air Lines merged with Capital Air Lines. The bitching and whining did not stop until the last person employed by each, at the time, retired.
 
OP
Hopeful

Hopeful

Veteran
Dec 21, 2002
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FWAAA:

You want us AAers to give it a rest already????????????

How about the TWAers give it a rest and realize TWA doesn''t exist anymore and they should refer to themselves as AAers?
 
B

bagsmasher

Guest
RV4 writes:
bagsmasher:

Your post translated...

..."I''M VOTING YES BECAUSE I AM OVERCOME WITH COMPANY UNION FEAR"

"I WISH TO LEAD ALL WAGES OF INDUSTRY BACKWARDS"

So how much are you willing to give so that your firends can be paid to move?

Maybe the TWU should return and extract more from the FEARFUL fools.

And how much cozier could a union and company possibly get?

THANK YOU


No RV4, you are wrong. I do not want to lead all wages of the industry backward. The industry has seen setback after setback over the last 3 years. Eventually something has to give.
I''ve simply decided that my life would be much better if I either left the company, or went part-time.
On the other hand, their are many who want to stay, and I believe that voting "YES" will preserve more jobs, with better conditions, than voting "NO" and sending AMR into Bankruptcy.
Don''t get me wrong, I still have ZERO faith in AMR, and believe it will eventually go BK anyway. But giving into concessions now will go a long way towards goodwill when the company is forced to file.
 

AA80Driver

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Jan 16, 2003
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FWIW, I''m changing from a No vote to Yes vote after spending an hour listening to bankruptcy council at the DFW Road Show. The reason is not because I have anything good to about our current TA...I don''t--it sucks. It is because it is better than anything that will come out of bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is a crap sandwich for everyone: Labor, Company, Creditors & Stockholders. I originally thought that BK would be equitable because it would force mgmt and the creditor to get a bigger haircrut. They probably would too, but at labors expense and the company also gets hit by bookaway, COD terms, BK fees, and onerous DIP restrictions. In short, there aren''t too many success stories involving airlines and BK and our attorney''s think it will be disasterous.

At some point you''ve got to come to the realization that you''ve run out of bullets. Fighting Lorenzo''s attorney''s (yes, that''s who AMR has hired) in the Southern District of NY is a battle that we can''t win. Let''s regroup, get the airline back on it''s feet and pursue our pound of flesh when they''re making money in three years.
 

texflyer

Advanced
Feb 26, 2003
129
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For what its worth,AA got TWA for a steal,$440 mill,if even that much. So blaming TWA is just being too convenient. The truth of the matter is that the airline enviremont has changed to a lowfare one. I feel sorry for many of you guys,because when I was in high school I had dreams of working in the airline industry. Never would I thought in ten years it would be upside down the way it is now.
 

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