Anybody know or hear anything about Jetblue''s plans for DFW. Over the last week or so, JB has had people walking around the B terminal at DFW. They were looking over some of gates and jetbridges, and were being escorted by a couple of DFW Airport ops folks. I know this doesn''t mean a whole lot, but it does look ironic since there is going to be a few gates opening up in the B terminal soon.
Jetblue to DFW???
- Thread starter DFWFSC
- Start date
LGA Fleet Service
Veteran
[STRONG][FONT size=1]Lots of discussion on Airliners.Net about a blurb in Sunday's Anchorage Daily News regarding jetblue supposedly eyeballing SEA-ANC service.LGB-SEA-ANC would seem to make more sense than JFK-DFW, but then again I am not in route planning so my speculation should be taken with a grain of salt about the size of a safe...
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Well, normally I'd say it would incur the wrath of AA, but at this point I don't think AA's feelings towards JetBlue can get much worse. JFK, SJU, FLL, OAK, and LGB are all routes that, at least to some extent, erode AA's yields. If you need proof, just look at AA's obvious tit-for-tat response in LGB. However, I don't see that AA has many more tools at its disposal with which to fight JetBlue. Crandall would have, perhaps literally, bitten Neeleman's head off by now (MTV's "Celebrity Deathmatch" comes to mind), but those days are long gone.
At DFW, there is a certain psychological aspect about going for AA's "jugular," but it's a market that's ripe for the picking in terms of low-fare service. Just try to find a decent fare between NYC and DFW without advance purchase and a Saturday night stay--it's almost impossible nonstop. From my experience, people tend to go with AirTran through ATL or ATA through MDW, but the choices aren't great. Perhaps more important, it's a route that is totally safe from Southwest, since it doesn't seem likely that there will be long-haul WN service out of DAL anytime soon (nor does it seem likely that they'll start flying out of DFW, but maybe someday).
So, at first glance, DFW seems somewhat more plausible than ANC, but there are of course other factors. Perhaps officials in ANC, for example, are eager to attract some new competition, in which case they might be prepared to offer JetBlue financial incentives, etc. Then again, the same might be true at DFW--no airport manager, especially at an airport undergoing major capital improvements, likes to see unused gates sitting around.
At DFW, there is a certain psychological aspect about going for AA's "jugular," but it's a market that's ripe for the picking in terms of low-fare service. Just try to find a decent fare between NYC and DFW without advance purchase and a Saturday night stay--it's almost impossible nonstop. From my experience, people tend to go with AirTran through ATL or ATA through MDW, but the choices aren't great. Perhaps more important, it's a route that is totally safe from Southwest, since it doesn't seem likely that there will be long-haul WN service out of DAL anytime soon (nor does it seem likely that they'll start flying out of DFW, but maybe someday).
So, at first glance, DFW seems somewhat more plausible than ANC, but there are of course other factors. Perhaps officials in ANC, for example, are eager to attract some new competition, in which case they might be prepared to offer JetBlue financial incentives, etc. Then again, the same might be true at DFW--no airport manager, especially at an airport undergoing major capital improvements, likes to see unused gates sitting around.
KCFlyer
Veteran
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On 1/15/2003 10:32:09 AM FrugalFlyer wrote:
I don't think jetBlue is that stupid. Not only would this piss off AA, but DL and SW as well.
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Hmmm...JFK-DFW-LGB routing on JetBlue could put a hurting on some folks. I don't think it'd piss off SWA that much - that danged old Wright Amendment you know. Delta's turning DFW into an RJ haven and AA might be pissed, but do they have the cash to compete?
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On 1/15/2003 10:32:09 AM FrugalFlyer wrote:
I don't think jetBlue is that stupid. Not only would this piss off AA, but DL and SW as well.
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Hmmm...JFK-DFW-LGB routing on JetBlue could put a hurting on some folks. I don't think it'd piss off SWA that much - that danged old Wright Amendment you know. Delta's turning DFW into an RJ haven and AA might be pissed, but do they have the cash to compete?
I don't think it would piss off WN that much--certainly not as much as LGB-LAS and OAK did. As I mentioned above, because WN flies only out of DAL and can't sell tickets for long-haul connections, it is not really a competitor in the long-haul market out of the DFW area. Maybe that will change sometime in the future, but I don't see it happening imminently.
Yes, you're right that DL would be mighty pissed, but--like AA--DL is already pretty pissed at JetBlue, as is shown by DL's measures (in the form of the new LCC) to defend its eroding market share in the NY-Florida markets. JetBlue is no longer afraid to take on the big boys and, frankly, I think they've been holding their own quite well.
(KC, I hadn't seen your post yet when I wrote this, but I agree completely.)
Yes, you're right that DL would be mighty pissed, but--like AA--DL is already pretty pissed at JetBlue, as is shown by DL's measures (in the form of the new LCC) to defend its eroding market share in the NY-Florida markets. JetBlue is no longer afraid to take on the big boys and, frankly, I think they've been holding their own quite well.
(KC, I hadn't seen your post yet when I wrote this, but I agree completely.)
As far as an "article in the Anchorage Daily News" about Jet Blue flying to ANC, I've searched the archives on the website for the ADN. Nothing there about Jet Blue at all. I can't imagine that Jet Blue is looking at this market. Never say never, but I don't see it.
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/15/2003 12:29:11 PM Cart Pusher wrote:
[P]As far as an "article in the Anchorage Daily News" about Jet Blue flying to ANC, I've searched the archives on the website for the ADN. Nothing there about Jet Blue at all.[BR]----------------[/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]CartPusher,[BR][BR]I had to look hard when I looked for it too. But I found it. A very brief mention buried in a columnist's work on Sunday.[BR][BR]The whole mention was:[BR][EM]SUNDAY BRUNCH: JetBlue, one of the nation's most successful low-fare airlines, reportedly is considering entering the Anchorage-Seattle market. The airline features a video monitor at each of its all-leather coach seats . [BR][/EM][A href="http://www.adn.com/voice/story/2451672p-2499169c.html"][EM]http://www.adn.com/voice/story/2451672p-2499169c.html[/EM][/A][BR][BR]That's all there was.[/P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/15/2003 12:29:11 PM Cart Pusher wrote:
[P]As far as an "article in the Anchorage Daily News" about Jet Blue flying to ANC, I've searched the archives on the website for the ADN. Nothing there about Jet Blue at all.[BR]----------------[/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]CartPusher,[BR][BR]I had to look hard when I looked for it too. But I found it. A very brief mention buried in a columnist's work on Sunday.[BR][BR]The whole mention was:[BR][EM]SUNDAY BRUNCH: JetBlue, one of the nation's most successful low-fare airlines, reportedly is considering entering the Anchorage-Seattle market. The airline features a video monitor at each of its all-leather coach seats . [BR][/EM][A href="http://www.adn.com/voice/story/2451672p-2499169c.html"][EM]http://www.adn.com/voice/story/2451672p-2499169c.html[/EM][/A][BR][BR]That's all there was.[/P]
LGA Fleet Service
Veteran
I'm sure they will start service soon as they can't ignore this market much longer if they're going to have a NYC hub. But I don't think its that big a deal. AA has around 15+ flights a day to the NYC market with the bulk going into the more convenient LGA and EWR. Plus you have CO,DL, Airtran and ATA all offering (along with AA) $250.00 or less RT fares. Its a VERY competitive route already.
Yes, there is competition, but like I said, try finding decent unrestricted fares (i.e., less than 21-day w/o Sat. night stay). Suddenly the fares don't look so good.
This was in the Dallas Morning News a few days ago..interesting article that touches on Jetblue and DFW.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/da...wfare.e914.html
Tim
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/da...wfare.e914.html
Tim
Just for kicks I checked AA's fares for 7 and 14 day advanced with Sat stay. 7 day advanced purchase was $344.00 with connection in ORD or $414.00 non-stop.
14day advanced purchase was only $216.00. Not exactly the traditional gouging that happens on other routes.
14day advanced purchase was only $216.00. Not exactly the traditional gouging that happens on other routes.
Exactly my point (see above). Thanks for providing the numbers.
Furthermore, the published fares don't tell the whole story. Looking 21+ days ahead, but with no Saturday night stay, AA has a fare between NYC and DFW of $281. Sounds nice, but that's only available on the two daily flights out of JFK, which are clearly timed more for international connections than for O&D convenience. The vast majority of AA's flights are out of LGA, where the fare is $731.
Yes, it's true that JetBlue's service would be out of JFK, not out of LGA. But good scheduling and frequency, combined with JetBlue's huge popularity in the NY area (do NOT overestimate this), would put pressure on LGA fares too.
The point has been made a thousand times, but I'll say it again: what the major airlines are just starting to realize (perhaps too late) is that low fare airlines aren't all cattlecars anymore, and don't just appeal to college kids and grandmothers going to Florida. There is a certain type of business traveler who needs to get to, say, Chicago or Atlanta at the last minute with no Saturday night stay. Perhaps he/she doesn't really go for Southwest, preferring a more convenient NYC airport, a reserved seat, etc., but that's where ATA and AirTran come in. Similarly, if the same business traveler to L.A. or the Bay Area can get a decent walkup fare AND a leather seat, TV, etc. on JetBlue, the choice isn't that hard. This, in a nutshell, is why the major airlines need to adapt quickly to avoid going the way of the dinosaurs.
Furthermore, the published fares don't tell the whole story. Looking 21+ days ahead, but with no Saturday night stay, AA has a fare between NYC and DFW of $281. Sounds nice, but that's only available on the two daily flights out of JFK, which are clearly timed more for international connections than for O&D convenience. The vast majority of AA's flights are out of LGA, where the fare is $731.
Yes, it's true that JetBlue's service would be out of JFK, not out of LGA. But good scheduling and frequency, combined with JetBlue's huge popularity in the NY area (do NOT overestimate this), would put pressure on LGA fares too.
The point has been made a thousand times, but I'll say it again: what the major airlines are just starting to realize (perhaps too late) is that low fare airlines aren't all cattlecars anymore, and don't just appeal to college kids and grandmothers going to Florida. There is a certain type of business traveler who needs to get to, say, Chicago or Atlanta at the last minute with no Saturday night stay. Perhaps he/she doesn't really go for Southwest, preferring a more convenient NYC airport, a reserved seat, etc., but that's where ATA and AirTran come in. Similarly, if the same business traveler to L.A. or the Bay Area can get a decent walkup fare AND a leather seat, TV, etc. on JetBlue, the choice isn't that hard. This, in a nutshell, is why the major airlines need to adapt quickly to avoid going the way of the dinosaurs.
