Just the facts

C

chipmunn

Guest
US Airways RSA DIP financing agreement requires the airline to reach certain revenue and cash flow targets.
US Airways did not meet those targets in September, October, and November.
Because of US Airways not meeting its required financial targets, RSA required deeper cost cuts of $400 million, of which one-half or $200 million was required to come from labor.
Without these cuts, US airways is not expected to receive the loan guarantee and RSA has said it will submit a motion to the bankruptcy court to transition US Airways to liquidation proceedings.
The recent GECAS financing agreement, to provide an additional $120 million in DIP financing and $710 million in additional post bankruptcy financing, requires the carrier to avoid defaulting on its bankruptcy financing agreements.
Therefore, without ratified agreements by the IAM, AFA, and CWA, US Airways would default on its bankruptcy financing agreements, and no longer qualify for the GECAS financing, federal loan guarantee, further DIP financing, and RSA Equity investment.
The total financial loss: $1.77 billion.
Considering US Airways continues to burn cash, has less than $700 million in liquidity, and no other access to the capital markets, what do you think will happen to the airline if any union rejects their TA and the airline loses $1.77 billion in financing?
I do not want to hear any chest pounding about how unfair this situation is to all of us. The facts are listed above, the unions understand the financier and creditor conditions, and union leaders are recommending TA ratification. Why? Just the facts as listed above, plain and simple.
Thus, enough no votes = liquidation because the money people have said so, period.
Chip
 

Schwanker

Member
Dec 20, 2002
68
0
JUST THE FACTS:

1. The company promised after the 1113 letter that they would not come back for more after you ratify the most CONCESSIONARY CONTRACT in the industry. THE COMPANY LIED.

2. The companies biggest hurdle is the funding of the PENSION PLANS with the PBGC. Who has the most to lose here?

3. There is NO GUARANTEE if you do not ratify, the company will go belly up. Is management good for its word?

4. There is NO GUARANTEE of the severance benefits if you do ratify. Will they seek to VOID SEVERANCE BENNIES?

5. There is no limit to the outsourcing. Will you have a job to come back too?
 
OP
C

chipmunn

Guest
Slam:

With all due respect, if people like Cav and I thought everybody "got it" there would be no need to post our comments.

However, it seems the financiers keep demanding labor cuts to protect their interests due to deteriorating fundamentals and the financiers id it occured again just a few days ago.

As you know, the recent GECAS financing agreement, to provide an additional $120 million in DIP financing and $710 million in additional post bankruptcy financing, requires the carrier to avoid defaulting on its bankruptcy financing agreements. Thus no labor cuts, no GECAS money. Why do the naysayers not understand this? Do they think GECAS, a powerful company, is bluffing too?

I think Chris Chiames said it well in response to Jim Root's email and post when Chiames said, "(Jim Root's) comments represent dangerous and irresponsible recommendations.

Chip
 

cavalier

Veteran
Aug 28, 2002
2,409
1
www.usaviation.com
[P][FONT size=3]To everyone who feels they must vote negative because they simply stop believing. You have been warned, all the red lights are flashing and the stall alarm is blaring. The people hitting the streets are only the beginning with a rejection vote. These are difficult times[EM] [/EM]everywhere, not just with U. Look around if you don’t believe this either. Jobs are available, yes, at ¼ of what you are now receiving and some without any benefits at all. FedEx, LUV, UPS only need so many mechanics, and the ones lucky enough to get on know someone inside and have to relocate. It is true some places are paying more, now try getting on at those dream jobs we all hear of. We have a better chance right where we are with acceptance, prayer, hard work, and time for management’s plans to fall into place. This is tough for every one of us, but it’s also the path of least resistance when you consider the alternatives. I have two trades under my belt but with the poor economy it does not matter. Unless you have three or four trades to fall back on, or plan on starting a business in this dead economy, what real choice do you really have? Thumbing your finger at the very face that feeds your family is not very wise given the present circumstances we all find ourselves in. Sit back and calmly think what you would do without U if it is completely gone tomorrow, along with everything it offers, your job and seniority or severance, insurance, time for moving forward into another job. I would rather say on my resume I came from a winning team and not a total failure of which I was a part. There is still time to sit quietly and really consider what you are about to do and the[EM] [/EM]gravity it carries. Best of Luck to all of my co-workers, the best bunch of guys I have had the pleasure to work with, in great working conditions, especially when compared to the sweat shops I have labored at, and also lots of fun and laughs while earning a good living.[/FONT][/P]
[P][FONT size=3]Cavalier[/FONT][/P]
 

sdavis29

Advanced
Nov 13, 2002
222
0
www.usaviation.com
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/4/2003 10:10:41 PM chipmunn wrote:
[P]US Airways RSA DIP financing agreement requires the airline to reach certain revenue and cash flow targets.[BR][BR]US Airways did not meet those targets in September, October, and November.[BR][BR]Because of US Airways not meeting its required financial targets, RSA required deeper cost cuts of $400 million, of which one-half or $200 million was required to come from labor.[BR][BR]Without these cuts, US airways is not expected to receive the loan guarantee and RSA has said it will submit a motion to the bankruptcy court to transition US Airways to liquidation proceedings.[BR][BR]The recent GECAS financing agreement, to provide an additional $120 million in DIP financing and $710 million in additional post bankruptcy financing, requires the carrier to avoid defaulting on its bankruptcy financing agreements.[BR][BR]Therefore, without ratified agreements by the IAM, AFA, and CWA, US Airways would default on its bankruptcy financing agreements, and no longer qualify for the GECAS financing, federal loan guarantee, further DIP financing, and RSA Equity investment.[BR][BR]The total financial loss: $1.77 billion.[BR][BR]Considering US Airways continues to burn cash, has less than $700 million in liquidity, and no other access to the capital markets, what do you think will happen to the airline if any union rejects their TA and the airline loses $1.77 billion in financing?[BR][BR]I do not want to hear any chest pounding about how unfair this situation is to all of us. The facts are listed above, the unions understand the financier and creditor conditions, and union leaders are recommending TA ratification. Why? Just the facts as listed above, plain and simple.[BR][BR]Thus, enough no votes = liquidation because the "money people" have said so, period. [BR][BR]Chip[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]chip,[BR]plz do not take this personnal as it is not directed at you. there is enough information on this site for everyone to know what is at stake...[BR]there seems to be a battle between us and them, yes and no, and good and evil. maybe if all parties let it rest a little it might calm down to rational thought. just an idea.[BR]as for the so called union leaders advising all parties to accept...they have 1 goal and that is to keep the dues coming in from approx 30,000 members...other than that why would they care. if usairways folds...the unions lose major$$$$$$$. [BR][BR]thx for your posts they are usually quite informative.[BR][BR]
 

AP Tech

Veteran
Sep 4, 2002
1,661
246
When is it going to be enough? Say we do not reach the target for Jan-Mar, traditionaly the slow travel periods, they will come back for another 400 or so million. And we still have the pension issue. I am just sick of it along with many others, why not just work for free? They are not going to quit asking until someone says NO!
 

Slam&Click

Member
Aug 24, 2002
90
0
Chip, just how many times and in how many different ways are you going to say the exact same thing? Over and over again, ad nauseum. You must honestly have so little respect for your fellow employees, you treat them with such disrespect -- they get it! I get it, my dog gets it, and believe me the beaten dead horse gets it -- really -- please, stop! It is so condescending.
 
OP
C

chipmunn

Guest
Schwanker, if you believe the words in your last post and fail to recognize the changing circumstances/reality effecting our industry, I encourage you to quit or fill out your unemployment compensation forms, and seek other employment.

Slam&Click said, "You (Chip) must honestly have so little respect for your fellow employees, you treat them with such disrespect -- they get it!" Schwanker, with all due respect, in my opinion, you have just proven Slam&Click wrong because I believe you do not "get it".

Chip
 

Schwanker

Member
Dec 20, 2002
68
0
Chip
With all due respect, I do not see anything in my last post as inaccurate. There clearly is no Guarantee to anything with respect to what the company says, as has been proven time again.

I also believe your posts are a bit misleading. It may be GECAS will not play ball if the company defaults on it's bankruptcy financing. It's also not a FACT that failure to ratify the TA's will result in company default. Maybe if you believe the company's threat should be treated as gospel. I don't share this same trust with management's word. Equating non-ratification with defualt = GECAS pulling out is not accurate and you know it. As asked before, is the company bluffing? Are all these additional cuts management is seeking just to squeeze some more gravy out of the sponge? Will ratification guarentee anything if the PBGC cannot be satisfied? There are lots of unknowns, and taking the company for it's word may not be the best advice. Obviously, (I'm assuming here) you feel the company is credible. I do not.

Best regards,

Schwanker
 

delldude

Veteran
Oct 29, 2002
28,763
6,012
Downrange
www.youtube.com
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/4/2003 10:10:41 PM chipmunn wrote:
[P]US Airways RSA DIP financing agreement requires the airline to reach certain revenue and cash flow targets.[BR][BR]US Airways did not meet those targets in September, October, and November.[BR][BR]Because of US Airways not meeting its required financial targets, RSA required deeper cost cuts of $400 million, of which one-half or $200 million was required to come from labor.[BR][BR]Without these cuts, US airways is not expected to receive the loan guarantee and RSA has said it will submit a motion to the bankruptcy court to transition US Airways to liquidation proceedings.[BR][BR]The recent GECAS financing agreement, to provide an additional $120 million in DIP financing and $710 million in additional post bankruptcy financing, requires the carrier to avoid defaulting on its bankruptcy financing agreements.[BR][BR]Therefore, without ratified agreements by the IAM, AFA, and CWA, US Airways would default on its bankruptcy financing agreements, and no longer qualify for the GECAS financing, federal loan guarantee, further DIP financing, and RSA Equity investment.[BR][BR]The total financial loss: $1.77 billion.[BR][BR]Considering US Airways continues to burn cash, has less than $700 million in liquidity, and no other access to the capital markets, what do you think will happen to the airline if any union rejects their TA and the airline loses $1.77 billion in financing?[BR][BR]I do not want to hear any chest pounding about how unfair this situation is to all of us. The facts are listed above, the unions understand the financier and creditor conditions, and union leaders are recommending TA ratification. Why? Just the facts as listed above, plain and simple.[BR][BR]Thus, enough no votes = liquidation because the "money people" have said so, period. [BR][BR]Chip[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P][EM]excuse me ,chippie....we vote this in...then i expect another round when dave doesn't make a profit in dec/jan/feb/mar???is this the next step??? [BR]chip :blahh blahh blah about all the evil ,wicked ,mean and nasty consequences...if this is our 'karma'...so be it. [/EM]
 

Dea Certe

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
889
0
Chip,

It is painfully clear to all of us what management is doing to meet its goals of cutting labor costs. What is not clear to me is what is being done to increase revenue?

Raising fares or continuing to add fees is not the best way to increase revenue. Customers have plenty of choices out there today and will only tolerate so much gouging. I believe our customers are close to reaching the breaking point, much like the employees.

What is marketing doing? Are they looking at ways to attract business? Mr. Baldanza has done a fine job angering many of our best customers and they are taking their business elsewhere.

Is there any consideration being done about rationalizing our fares? About making it easier for our customers to choose flying on us? Simplify the rules a bit, maybe?

We seem to be undecided on what kind of airline we are, full service or no frills? Regional carrier with a few transcons here and there and some international thrown in? MetroJet didn't work although I used to hear from some customers they loved it. Is The Shuttle being discarded?

I love my job and have been willing to do my part to help US Airways stay viable. I was willing to give Wolf and Gangwal a chance to fulfill the promises they made to us. I still have the video "At a Crossroad" they sent out.

I was willing to give Dave a chance. I went to the roadshows and wanted to believe him, hoped he would be able to turn things around and still be "labor friendly." I've been very disappointed in his choice of staff. Jerry Glass is anything but friendly and if what we've heard about his foul mouth during the so-called negotiations is not encouraging to me.

Ben Baldanza is questionable at best. He insulted our most frequent flyers and remains unrepentent. Chip, I had to deal with the consequences of that nasty letter face to face with some very loyal customers on the day it came out. We'll all have to deal with the lost revenue from it.

If we are to remain in business changes are going to need to come from both labor and management. I feel labor is doing its part. We are continuing to give our best efforts to our customers under very stressful conditions. Take a look over on the FlyerTalk website. Our customers stay with us because the front line has taken good care of them.

You can't blame the employees for being upset and emotional. We feel betrayed and distrustful because that's what we've seen from certain members of management.

This latest round of concessions are going to harder to swallow because of the way they were delivered. I fully understand the impulse to say NO. We don't think it's the last time our wallets will be lightened and our lifestyles seriously impacted. We need to see that management is doing its part. We need to know they are as serious about raising revenue as they have been about cutting labor costs. We are worn out with threats and self-induced crises. Management needs to get its upper level cleaned out of the scoundrels and set some standards of ethics.

I want to see USAirways come out of this stronger and with a good reputation for service. We have the employees to do this but I'm becoming doubtful of the management. This is the major problem, I believe, in getting labor to sign off.
 

deltawatch

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
887
0
www.usaviation.com
Chip why don't you fix your pension plan, and respect the fact that the CWA should work all mainline flights. You should support your union brothers on this. Would you allow say 25 airbus aircraft to be leased to MDA and be flown into the 15 or 20 stations that are going to have 2 or 4 mainline depts?????

Once again Chip only thinks of himself when it comes down to the money, and a future. This is why I voted to be unionized. At least we can stand up for fairness. The CWA membership would be glad to vote yes to a fair give back, but not to this BS. So if you want to save your company you should be lobbing for a FAIR deal that meets the companies needs. And more of us will vote yes.
.
 

Flufdriver

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
396
6
www.usaviation.com
Chip, I totally understand your facts and appreciate your efforts to post them and the outcome pending the votes. I realize what is at stake and what we ALL will lose. I do enjoy reading from the other side how all this out sourceing will occur if "we" vote this in. I have news for you guys, a majority no vote will bring MORE then outsourceing...I guess then and only then you hard nosers will be happy.

Chip, don't waste your time dealing with this "bunch" of doom and gloomers, after all they have all the answers! It's all about them and not the rest of the employee groups. We are all in this together guys, lets show the rest of the industry that would love to see us fail, pull together and survive for better days in the future! This is NO time to pound our chest and play poker at the table. As in Vegas, the odds are with the house!
 

Schwanker

Member
Dec 20, 2002
68
0
----------------
On 1/4/2003 11:44:50 PM chipmunn wrote:

Schwanker, if you believe the words in your last post and fail to recognize the changing circumstances/reality effecting our industry, I encourage you to quit or fill out your unemployment compensation forms, and seek other employment.



Chip
----------------

YOU ENCOURAGE ME TO QUIT MY JOB. Is that more terrific advice that I've apparently solicited?

I encourage you to accept a TOTAL COMPENSATION PACKAGE equal to the CWA. What? Not enough?

Well then, I encourage you to accept a TOTAL COMPENSATION PACKAGE equal to the IAM. Not enough again?

Chip,
If I were in your shoes, I can see why I would be so adamant about the ratification of these TAs from the other work groups (WHO, BY THE WAY, ARE NOT ASKING FOR YOUR ADVICE). I will not go into all of the reasons here or now (unless you would like me to). I do not wish to drum up emotions with a class warfare argument.
 

geo1004

Senior
Aug 22, 2002
288
0
Michael707767, if ALL you say is TRUE and you personally have reached the point where you can not stand it anymore then you should quit. To think that by voting NO is somehow going to teach someone a lesson is a mistake. You may have other options when it comes to employment and I hope you do. Personally I am thankful I have a job (I do not work for any airline) in this economy and thank God I am not out looking for a job in these times. If you have reached the end of YOUR rope then you should go. To vote NO and have the airline shut down means you are giving your fellow employees/friends who may not have the same employment opportunities you have the chance to stay and save a great airline. Vote YES and then walk out the door and leave the airline flying for those who have no option.