Just To Make It Clear One Last Time (long)

[BAC111_4EVER]

This is LONG...If you don't like long posts, please click back! THX!

As I finished my 3 day trip today as a flight attendant with U, I repeatedly heard customers ask myself and other flight attendants where we are going to find other jobs making $35 an hour plus benefits.

I have tried to explain this before and I will try to explain this again for our passengers and other employees: I make $11 an hour at U.

How is this possible?

Well, I get paid HALF of the hours I actually work. My salary is $22/hr. On an average 10 hr day, I get 5 of that in flight time. Flight time is the only time PAID.

So, yes, all that time I am boarding passengers, taking f/c coats, serving drinks, closing overheads, checking the catering supplies, sitting at the gate waiting for connections-ALL unpaid.

NOT A COMPLAINT but a following is a Prime Example of my daily time/wage experience so people may understand that we are NOT spoiled little overpaid whiners-

Showed up for the first day of a trip last week at 11 am. DCA-PHL-LAX

(Commuted from Tampa-so I had been in uniform trying to get on a plane since 8 am-MY CHOICE, I am aware. But I cannot afford to live in ANY of our bases...TRIED every one I could get into (all except Pit) and could absolutely not afford housing on my wage.)

Boarded our flight to PHL at 1:30 pm. Full. We had something "off" mechanically, so we called a mechanic while people sat. At 2:15, captain said it would be at least an hour to fix. Seemed like 1000 bells started going off about "connections". Well, since we are not allowed to leave the a/c because we use minimum crews, the captain has to call for an agent. But the agent is now working another flight. We call for a supervisor. It's almost 10 minutes before someone shows up.

People are HOSTILE now and want to get OFF. (Don't blame them. )

Long story short...3 hours later, after entertaining/serving/answering 130 upset passengers, we got another plane and re-boarded for a departure time of 6:30. At this point, I have been paid ZERO. Nada. Zilch.

Arrive in CLT at about 7:30 to pick up our next flight, the "4:20 pm to LAX"-which has been so nicely "held" for us-lol!

At 8 pm we start boarding another 130 or so hostile pax, who have been waiting 3 hours for us. We cannot serve pre departure first class drinks because it is a 321, and there is no extra f/a up front. 24 PO'd US1's, 2's and 3's.

So, the f/c people now start coming up to the front galley against the tide, holding up the boarding process, and ringing their bells for us to take their coats. If you don't answer, they ring again or glare at you. They think you are "lazy" or not doing your job. And they are THIRSTY.
:angry:

But, after all I've been through SO FAR, I understand and keep smiling. By the time we board everyone and are ready to go, it is almost 9 pm. I have been "on duty" since 1 pm, (8 hours) and have made a total of $22! And I have still got to fly a 5 hour flight to LAX! lol

Our "long" overnight in LAX was now a "minimum" (10 hours) but we cannot change the hotel arrangements, so upon arriving in LAX, we must take a 45 min bus ride to the long hotel for a 10 hour stay with a 45 min ride back in the morning.

On the flight back, LAX to PHL, everything goes fine. BUT, in PHL, we are delayed FOUR hours to DCA because we are the last flight of the night and 60 of our passengers are stuck in customs from the Islands with no baggage and no USAir representative to tell them what to do.

The baggage is not being released for some reason. We have about 50 pax currently on our flight who we cannot even let leave in case we decide to "go without the others".

Guess who is not getting paid for those four exhausting hours?

Now, is this an anomoly? Heck no! This is the way this airline is run, has been run since I started here.

Do I love what I do? Absolutely. Is a cut in my pay from $11 an hour to whatever Dave is offering worth keeping this job? It's a tough decision.

But I am going to have to suck it up, because I need the health insurance. If USAir goes down, I am forced to go on state aid in order to afford the medications and the medical care that I currently receive for a serious health condition I have.

This costs me over $300 a month WITH the insurance I have now, and that is on a salary that has gone from about 29k to about 20k on the "new balancing" system.

Anyhoo- POINT IS-If anyone is under the impression that published hourly wages are actual hourly wages, welcome to the Airline Industry! I make about $11 hour. Would YOU go to work and accept to be paid for HALF of the hours you actually work? I do every day.

Thanks for listening to my rant-but most of what I wish people would take away is an understanding of why employees are resisting more cuts-we are NOT overpaid, and in some situations, including mine, there is a serious question as to whether our new wage is even going to BE liveable. Better than no job? For me? Yes, if I can maintain my health insurance and a roof. Heck, I can live in a shelter...DID before on reserve in DCA! LOL

 

[USFlyer]

Why not just make everyone salaried based on the "option" you take? Then, it's up to management to schedule you efficiently up to that option.

 

[Air conditioned]

BAC111 4 EVER,

What a well-written post that was! Perhaps you should go into journalism. Not one single misspelled word or grammatical error that I could find. Truly enlightening for folks on the outside.
I can relate totally. It does raise the question as to whether or not the new cuts could even be livable.

 

[justanadd]

BRAVO Well said !!

 

[Furloughedagain]

There are Express First Officers who, by that formula, would be making $4.27/hr.

Bet they would LOVE to be making your wage. I know I sure would! Not arguing with you of course. You're absolutely right. Just pointing out that it's not an F/A only situation. There are thousands of so-called "commuter" pilots out there flying regional jets around the country who dont get paid for time away from base, preflight inspections/planning, removing gear-pins, stowing crew bags in the baggage compartment, weight and balance calculation and paperwork, performance calculation, cockpit setup, assisting with cabin cleanup, etc.

We too have had customers (and fellow employees) inform us that we're overpaid. When we ask them what, in their opinion, we're worth we are told $40-$50,000 per year. They're literally shocked when they find out the sad truth that highly trained, educated, first-officers make less than $25,000/year for the first several years.

(4 day trip = apprx. 108 hrs away from domicile.
4 day trip = apprx. 21 hrs pay at $22.00/hr = $462 / 108 = $4.27)

or, if you want to remove the time AT the hotel (assume 12 hrs per night which is on the high side) then...

4 day trip = apprx. 21 hrs pay at $22.00/hr = $462/ 72 = $6.41

 

[ktflyhome]

BAC111 4 Ever: Excellant Post. Very accurate and well said. I know Exactly what you are talking about. I have done a one 2-day trip all month and sat OPR three times. Twice I was assigned. I feel I am living on Pins and Needles and on my Computer.

 

[767jetz]

Just my 2 cents worth.

I think this topic is long overdue. I've been preaching this very same thing to any "ground pounder" (non-airline person) that will listen, for years. They hear our hourly pay rate, and think of a typical 40 hour week. Then they add 2 + 2 and get 8! Some realize that we do "extra" work that isn't paid time, but don't realize that it's about a 50% ratio. They don't realize for example that pilots are limited by the FAA to 1000 hours of flight time per year, so this is the very max a pilot is paid for. (19.23 hours per week average PAY time... MAXIMUM)

It's not their fault either. Our pay system is different than what most people know, and we (the airlines, the unions, etc.) never educated the public. The problem is that during times like these, our pay and lifestyles are constantly in the (mis-informed)public eye.

Unfortunately much of our future can be decided in the court of public opinion. How you ask? Well for example, some of us take 30%, 40%, 50% pay cuts, and John Q Public still thinks we live like royalty. Do you think that same person will write to their congressmen and women to express support for pension rule changes? Of course not. Will he support a candidate who is airline labor friendly?All he cares about is paying the lowest possible price, yet still wants exceptional first class service and perks, and wants to enjoy the safest transportation system in the world.

Then he points to Jet Blue, not realizing that Jet Blue serves certain niche markets, and the employees (who I'm sure are all very good people) are willing to work for substandard rates to undercut the competition. You do get what you pay for. Why do you think there is a huge price difference between a KIA and a Cadillac? John Q Public also doesn't realize that a niche airline like Jet Blue or even Southwest could never support the vast air transportation system he takes for granted, without a hub-and-spoke system, international alliances, interline bag systems, frequent flyer programs, executive clubs, investment in infrastructure (to include things like in-house training that can't be contrated out on a scale that large airlines need), and a resultant increase in cost and price.

If more of the public would realize the number of employees in the industry who make a below average to barely average salaries, and that even at the top very few (maybe less than 5%) are making the really big bucks, there would be more public sympathy and support.

OK, maybe that was more like my 10 cents worth. I'm done ranting. <_<

 

[ktflyhome]

I for one have a very difficult time talking about this industry to any Joe Public. They just don't get it...never will. They have a very distorted conception of the Airline Industry and it's employees. When you try to explain in general, common terms for them to even have a hint of understanding...their faces go BLANK.

Most all people in this country are programmed to only think in terms of 40 hour week jobs. If you work 40 hours, you get paid for 40 hours. They cannot conceptualize anything different.

I really just love it (NOT) when I run into someone and the first words out of their mouth is "OH, You're Not Flying Today??" Duh. Yea, sure, I am flying. I am just a figment of your imagination. :blink: :blink:

 

[BAC111_4EVER]

Not to overdindulge the subject or my status as a "guest" in this forum...but excellent points in response and since some here DO seem interested in this subject, I thought a follow-up would be interesting.


Air conditioned-I was a journalism major-you are very perceptive. I noticed a typo though...glad you didn't find it!

Furloughedagain-I understand it is not just flight attendants...I tried to specifically say "crews" in the header.

ktflyhome-

Most all people in this country are programmed to only think in terms of 40 hour week jobs. If you work 40 hours, you get paid for 40 hours. They cannot conceptualize anything different.

Hmmm..well, if you add up my hours as a (used to be) blockholder, I usually flew a 4 day a week, plus a 2 day on top of that one time. Now, as everyone knows, (uh huh) our days average 8-12 hours...sometimes 6, sometimes 14, but let's say for the record, a 10 hour average. If you work a 4 day each week, there's your 40 hours to compare to the "real world."

A 4 day each week gives you the minimum hours on the regular option of about 80-85 flight hrs/mo. Many f/a's fly more.


Was thinking after I wrote the post, how much money I actually made on that trip.
Again, NOT complaining, just trying to illustrate my first post.

Day one, commuted from Tampa at 8:15 in the morning, but really didn't go on duty till 1 pm. Finished up at 2:30 am in LAX. That's 13.5 hours on duty.

Next day, LAX to PHL to DCA. 1:30 pm departure. Arrive PHL 6:30 pm. Next flight is supposed to be the 9:55 to DCA. (Yeah, I know, sit 3.5 hrs in PHL :down: ).

Well, as stated before, the flight leaves 4 hours late, so we arrive in DCA about 3 am. THAT day ends up being a 13.5 hour day.

So, based on a "40 hour week", I have worked 27 of it already, right? And the grand total of pay? Hold your chairs, now....calculating....ching, ching, 6 hours flight time day one, 6 hours flight time day two, thats 12 hours flight time, right? 12 x $22 /hour is........Two hundred sixty four dollars. Sixty of which I spend for a hotel that night, since I cannot get back home until the morning.

Hard to believe? Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.

Someone on another thread mentioned that "Well, at least you get to fly free and take vacations." LOL LOL Ya, right! On whose bank account?

I was reminded via email that employees are not allowed to identify themselves as employees, so I will say that I know all this, but I don't work for USAIR. That's my renewed stance and I'm stickin' with it. Wouldn't want to lose my job with NOT-USAir.

Thanks for indulging my long posts folks...I DO hope you find them some help in explaining to the outside world what is at stake when people say "no more" and how MUCH we sacrificed the last two times around of the very little we had in the first place.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Let me say as a non-US employee, I am truly saddened to see you as employees suffer in the midst of years of management ineptitude. I recently rode up the hotel elevator w/ a US crew and they looked tired and did not exactly exude hope. Sadly, the glamour of aviation is gone forever and so is the hope of an airline job ever being as fun as it once was.

In reality, many Americans work to maintain insurance. Without getting on a political soapbox, healthcare reform will do more to improve the take home pay of Americans more than any thing else.

ALthough I know the paycuts have been more dramatic at US than at other carriers, I am interested in knowing the history of how flight crews were paid by the block hour. It certainly had to be a jet age, long-haul flight idea since no one in their right mind would have agreed to it at a short haul or non-jet carrier.

It seems to me from what I've read that the whole airline labor-management relationship needs to be worked.
-Labor and management need mechanisms to come to agreements w/o resorting to strikes or threats which only damage the company.
-Crews need to be paid to be productive; aircraft can essentially only be flown so fast so the real incentive for efficiency is on the ground and not the air. Yet, hub and spoke systems are inherently inefficient from a crew perspective from what I hear which is why WN is one of the few airlines that is able to pay its crews by the flight although even their FA's aren't overly happy.
-Pilots need to be encouraged to stay on one type of aircraft and be paid for their services and not the type of airplane they fly (after all Airbus basically says all of their aircraft require the same amount of effort to fly).

My prayers are with you good people at US over the next months which will be very trying. I would encourage each of you to maintain hope that there is a better life out there outside of the airline industry. I know people who were left in the lurch by Eastern's demise and many managed to find new lives, although the transition was certainly painful for some and longer than any had wished.

 

[BoeingBoy]

WorldTraveler,

Let me answer your question and clear up one point of confusion.

Pay by the block hour predates the jet age quite a bit. I basically goes back to the beginnings of ALPA when most commercial flying involved flying mail, not people.

Southwest does not pay their flight crews by the flight, although that is an easy mistake to make. They pay by the "trip" which originally meant the same as by the flight back when they were a strictly intrastate carrier with no flights outside Texas. In those days, as I understand it, their flights averaged just under an hour. So they set up their initial contracts to pay by the flight - a unit they called "trip". Fly 5 flights, get paid for 5 "trips". As they prepared to spread out from Texas with longer flights, this system had some obvious problems. Instead of changing the pay system, they adopted by specifying how many "trips" a given flight paid - a three hour flight would pay about 3 "trips". And that is the system they still use. So while they are paid on a per "trip" basis, it is not a per flight system. In fact, I have been told by Southwest pilots that a "trip" is equal to 55 minutes on average, so if you see their per "trip" payrate, just add about 9% to get the per hour pay rate.

Jim

 

[youngblood]

Worldtraveler,

I appreciate your thoughts and prayers. It will be a difficult few months and I am sad to say will more than likely end up with good-byes to the people I have grown to accept as part of my family.

 

[BAC111_4EVER]

As the Op, I, too appreciate your sentiments. You sound like you truly mean it.

Keep praying, as I do, for a miracle. And if it does go kaboom, there will be life after. Everything really DOES happen for a reason...it has been proven to me time and time again.

After thinking long and hard, I have finally come up with what I think is fair compensation for the employees! If you want to go, like Dave said, go. But if you want to stay and take your chances, here is what we are going to do....

USAIR is going to get one of those wind-booths that you stand inside. You are contractually obligated once you decide to syat at U.

Inside the windtunnel with you will be all the money that's left in U. You get 5 minutes. The machine turns on and the $$ starts flying around. Whatever you can grab in 5's, ones, 100's, 1000's...whatever...that's your salary for the year!

There will be special Bright Bonus Cards that include things like INSURANCE! RETIRE EARLY BONUS! AND A SPECIAL CARD FOR RETIREMENT. If any year, you can grab a retirment card, you're set. If not, you keep working and go into the tunnel next year. If you have to retire and you have no retirement card, well, you're not really that worse off, are ya? At least you had a shot! LOL

Everyone gets ONE shot a year in the booth. What you can grab is what you live on.

There. Now wasn't that easy? No more fighting!

 

[BAC111_4EVER]

once you decide to syat at U.

Sorry, typo. Meant "stay" at U.

 

[Oliver Twist]

Most all people in this country are programmed to only think in terms of 40 hour week jobs. If you work 40 hours, you get paid for 40 hours. They cannot conceptualize anything different.

I have a feeling that the 40 hr M-F's workers are in for a rude awakening in a decade or so. In that time frame +-, the numbers of us workers who don't have S/S off may outnumber the ones that do. How long before some bean counter figures out that they are paying for that office building 7 days a week, why aren't we using it 7 days a week????

My wife asks me every week when am I going to get a "regular" job with Sat Sun off? I hate to tell her that I may be in the Majority in as little as a decade!