BY CYNTHIA WILSON[BR]Of the Post-Dispatch[BR]09/12/2002 10:05 PM[BR][BR][BR][BR]American Airlines' St. Louis hub doesn't have the same value it once had for the nation's largest airline, some industry experts say. [BR][BR][A href=http://64.4.8.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=4ed5c3e75ba43aa4ee16ea2d0cebd179&lat=1031927540&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2estltoday%2ecom%2fstltoday%2fnews%2fstories%2ensf%2fNews%2f48E2EEB2A2E7A04C86256C330011D4E8%3fOpenDocument%26Headline%3dLambert%2592s%2520hub%2520status%2520is%2520threatened%252C%2520analysts%2520say]http://64.4.8.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=4ed5c3e75ba43aa4ee16ea2d0cebd179&lat=1031927540&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2estltoday%2ecom%2fstltoday%2fnews%2fstories%2ensf%2fNews%2f48E2EEB2A2E7A04C86256C330011D4E8%3fOpenDocument%26Headline%3dLambert%2592s%2520hub%2520status%2520is%2520threatened%252C%2520analysts%2520say[/A]
Lambert's hub status is threatened, analysts say
- Thread starter Sean
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JFK Fleet Service
Veteran
[FONT size=1]Could that URL be ANY longer? [/FONT]
Aloha
Try this: http://home.post-dispatch.com/channel/pdwe...apper=A-section.
Interesting that, Egan Jones Ratings Co., which also recently downgraded AMR's creditworthiness, said American Airlines is as vulnerable to bankruptcy as United Airlines' parent company UAL Corp., which has threatened to file for bankruptcy. Wonder how another airline would treat the employees of AA, if AA were bought out of bankrupcy and their contracts voided? Could happen.
ALOHA, 007
Try this: http://home.post-dispatch.com/channel/pdwe...apper=A-section.
Interesting that, Egan Jones Ratings Co., which also recently downgraded AMR's creditworthiness, said American Airlines is as vulnerable to bankruptcy as United Airlines' parent company UAL Corp., which has threatened to file for bankruptcy. Wonder how another airline would treat the employees of AA, if AA were bought out of bankrupcy and their contracts voided? Could happen.
ALOHA, 007
[blockquote]
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On 9/13/2002 11:57:21 AM FA Mikey wrote:
AA is not near bankruptcy. Plus AA unions have seniority protections. If we waive them as you did. We wont complain. If we dont then we are protected. Keep in mind if you freely give something away. Its gone.
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[/blockquote]
Aloha Mike,
AA may not be near bankrupcy, yet, but it is getting closer everyday. AA has lost over $2.3 BILLION in the last 12 months and lost over $465 million in the 2Q alone. Thats over 5 million a day. Not even TWA lost that much per day. This week Moodys downgrade AA senior unsecured debt, because AA has been hocking a lot of stuff. It will be more costly for AA to raise money. Today the stock hit $7.89/share, a drop of $1 and over 11% in one day. AA stock has drop over 50% drop in just 3months. The last time Iv seen drop in numbers like this was at TWA. The BIG factor is when gun happy Bush starts the war on Iraq. This will cause a huge spike in oil prices sending fuel prices way up. Add to the huge drop off in air travel, especially international travel that will happen and you have the same situation that happen to TWA during the Gulf War. TWA never recovered from those huge loses. IMHO, the worse is yet to come. I believe the 1Q of '03 will very interesting to say the least.
Watch for more big changes at AA and the way AA operates. Its a whole new ball game. A game we all have to play.
ALOHA, 007
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On 9/13/2002 11:57:21 AM FA Mikey wrote:
AA is not near bankruptcy. Plus AA unions have seniority protections. If we waive them as you did. We wont complain. If we dont then we are protected. Keep in mind if you freely give something away. Its gone.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Aloha Mike,
AA may not be near bankrupcy, yet, but it is getting closer everyday. AA has lost over $2.3 BILLION in the last 12 months and lost over $465 million in the 2Q alone. Thats over 5 million a day. Not even TWA lost that much per day. This week Moodys downgrade AA senior unsecured debt, because AA has been hocking a lot of stuff. It will be more costly for AA to raise money. Today the stock hit $7.89/share, a drop of $1 and over 11% in one day. AA stock has drop over 50% drop in just 3months. The last time Iv seen drop in numbers like this was at TWA. The BIG factor is when gun happy Bush starts the war on Iraq. This will cause a huge spike in oil prices sending fuel prices way up. Add to the huge drop off in air travel, especially international travel that will happen and you have the same situation that happen to TWA during the Gulf War. TWA never recovered from those huge loses. IMHO, the worse is yet to come. I believe the 1Q of '03 will very interesting to say the least.
Watch for more big changes at AA and the way AA operates. Its a whole new ball game. A game we all have to play.
ALOHA, 007
Wild Onion
Advanced
- Aug 21, 2002
- 120
- 0
Gun happy? What is it going to take? A mushroom cloud over Manhattan to change your mind?
Maybe we should just stick our head in the sand and wait for the problem to go away. It has seemed to work for the last 10 years. Saddam has done whatever the UN has asked and has completely stopped seeking to build nuclear and biological weapons.
I don't want to go to war any more than the next guy, but sometimes it is the lesser (and necessary) of two evils.
Maybe we should just stick our head in the sand and wait for the problem to go away. It has seemed to work for the last 10 years. Saddam has done whatever the UN has asked and has completely stopped seeking to build nuclear and biological weapons.
I don't want to go to war any more than the next guy, but sometimes it is the lesser (and necessary) of two evils.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #9
Any opinions on the long term viability of AMR stock? Is it in a nose dive toward bankruptcy? Will it eventually gain? I thought it was a bargain around $9. Now it just seems to keep getting worse. The recent downgrades hammered it pretty good. The impending war with Iraq has been mentioned. How far will it drop with the higher oil prices? There were a lot of people who thought TWA was a bargain at $7, then $5, then $3, etc. Same ultimate outcome here?
B
bagsmasher
Guest
Where's the value TWA brought to AA? I still don't see it. What I do see though is a pattern of buying airlines, and then getting rid of their airplanes, and abandoning their routes. When will they admit this TWA deal was a huge mistake? TWA should have been left on it's own to out of existance.
B
bagsmasher
Guest
Sean, short the stock now while you still have a chance. If UAL goes to BK, AA will have to follow to remain competitive. Looks like we just tied a weight around our neck with this TWA fiasco. All we accomplished was to hack off a lot of employees who will not be willing to give up any concessions after being screwed by the company.
[blockquote]
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On 9/13/2002 1:02:19 PM TWAFA007 wrote:
[/blockquote]
Aloha Mike,
AA may not be near bankrupcy, yet, but it is getting closer everyday. AA has lost over $2.3 BILLION in the last 12 months and lost over $465 million in the 2Q alone. Thats over 5 million a day. Not even TWA lost that much per day. ALOHA, 007
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[/blockquote]
But you fail to mention here that TWA was losing money when everyone else at the time was making record profits. I don't think that you can really compare the two situations.
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On 9/13/2002 1:02:19 PM TWAFA007 wrote:
[/blockquote]
Aloha Mike,
AA may not be near bankrupcy, yet, but it is getting closer everyday. AA has lost over $2.3 BILLION in the last 12 months and lost over $465 million in the 2Q alone. Thats over 5 million a day. Not even TWA lost that much per day. ALOHA, 007
----------------
[/blockquote]
But you fail to mention here that TWA was losing money when everyone else at the time was making record profits. I don't think that you can really compare the two situations.
[BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][BR]On 9/13/2002 1:02:19 PM TWAFA007 wrote:[BR][BR]Aloha Mike,[BR][BR]AA may not be near bankrupcy, yet, but it is getting closer everyday. AA has lost over $2.3 BILLION in the last 12 months and lost over $465 million in the 2Q alone. Thats over 5 million a day. Not even TWA lost that much per day. This week Moodys downgrade AA senior unsecured debt, because AA has been hocking a lot of stuff. It will be more costly for AA to raise money. Today the stock hit $7.89/share, a drop of $1 and over 11% in one day. AA stock has drop over 50% drop in just 3months. The last time Iv seen drop in numbers like this was at TWA. The BIG factor is when gun happy Bush starts the war on Iraq. This will cause a huge spike in oil prices sending fuel prices way up. Add to the huge drop off in air travel, especially international travel that will happen and you have the same situation that happen to TWA during the Gulf War. TWA never recovered from those huge loses. IMHO, the worse is yet to come. I believe the 1Q of '03 will very interesting to say the least. [BR][BR]Watch for more big changes at AA and the way AA operates. Its a whole new ball game. A game we all have to play.[BR][BR]ALOHA, 007[/P]
[P] [/P]
[P]MIKE says: Please show us the real cash burn, vs the pension losses. AA had a 9% return set on the pension funds. No more. Now they will have to contribute to them or wait for a higher return in the market. That will account for a portion of ourcurrent losses. [/P]
[P]I wonder when you say, not even TW lost that much a day. Did TW ever fly around 800 planes? Did they ever employ around 100,000 people. I dont think so.[/P]
[P]As for the gulf war TW was also a player to europe only. AA has international markets in Europe, Asia, Central and South America. That will help if the little Bush tries to make another war to spike up his polling numbers. [/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][BR]On 9/13/2002 1:02:19 PM TWAFA007 wrote:[BR][BR]Aloha Mike,[BR][BR]AA may not be near bankrupcy, yet, but it is getting closer everyday. AA has lost over $2.3 BILLION in the last 12 months and lost over $465 million in the 2Q alone. Thats over 5 million a day. Not even TWA lost that much per day. This week Moodys downgrade AA senior unsecured debt, because AA has been hocking a lot of stuff. It will be more costly for AA to raise money. Today the stock hit $7.89/share, a drop of $1 and over 11% in one day. AA stock has drop over 50% drop in just 3months. The last time Iv seen drop in numbers like this was at TWA. The BIG factor is when gun happy Bush starts the war on Iraq. This will cause a huge spike in oil prices sending fuel prices way up. Add to the huge drop off in air travel, especially international travel that will happen and you have the same situation that happen to TWA during the Gulf War. TWA never recovered from those huge loses. IMHO, the worse is yet to come. I believe the 1Q of '03 will very interesting to say the least. [BR][BR]Watch for more big changes at AA and the way AA operates. Its a whole new ball game. A game we all have to play.[BR][BR]ALOHA, 007[/P]
[P] [/P]
[P]MIKE says: Please show us the real cash burn, vs the pension losses. AA had a 9% return set on the pension funds. No more. Now they will have to contribute to them or wait for a higher return in the market. That will account for a portion of ourcurrent losses. [/P]
[P]I wonder when you say, not even TW lost that much a day. Did TW ever fly around 800 planes? Did they ever employ around 100,000 people. I dont think so.[/P]
[P]As for the gulf war TW was also a player to europe only. AA has international markets in Europe, Asia, Central and South America. That will help if the little Bush tries to make another war to spike up his polling numbers. [/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 9/13/2002 1:29:40 PM Wild Onion wrote:
[P]Gun happy? What is it going to take? A mushroom cloud over Manhattan to change your mind?[BR][BR]Maybe we should just stick our head in the sand and wait for the problem to go away. It has seemed to work for the last 10 years. Saddam has done whatever the UN has asked and has completely stopped seeking to build nuclear and biological weapons.[BR][BR]I don't want to go to war any more than the next guy, but sometimes it is the lesser (and necessary) of two evils.[BR][BR][BR] [BR][BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Gun happy YES. George Bush wants war. At any price. He saw what the war with Iraq did to his Daddy approval numbers. He saw what the war on terrorism did to his. He see's this as a self serving opportunity for him, his party, and the defense contractors.[/P]
[P]No mushroom cloud over NY, or any where else for that matter. He had the perfect opportunity to use chemical weapons as thousands of American troops were marching to victory across his country. He didnt. Why should be believe he is now waiting on the border to use them today or tomorrow? Because it serves the purpose of the current administration and its up coming mid term elections.[/P]
[P] War with Iraq will further weaken this countrys economy, and its major industries. Well all but the big defense ones. [/P]
[P]We need to finish what we started with terror. Put our money and energy there. Saddam has gone on fine being a bug for the last 11 + years. Why do we need to squash him right now? I think it really is for the mid term elections and the number it will bring a president and party that killed the economy.[/P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 9/13/2002 1:29:40 PM Wild Onion wrote:
[P]Gun happy? What is it going to take? A mushroom cloud over Manhattan to change your mind?[BR][BR]Maybe we should just stick our head in the sand and wait for the problem to go away. It has seemed to work for the last 10 years. Saddam has done whatever the UN has asked and has completely stopped seeking to build nuclear and biological weapons.[BR][BR]I don't want to go to war any more than the next guy, but sometimes it is the lesser (and necessary) of two evils.[BR][BR][BR] [BR][BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Gun happy YES. George Bush wants war. At any price. He saw what the war with Iraq did to his Daddy approval numbers. He saw what the war on terrorism did to his. He see's this as a self serving opportunity for him, his party, and the defense contractors.[/P]
[P]No mushroom cloud over NY, or any where else for that matter. He had the perfect opportunity to use chemical weapons as thousands of American troops were marching to victory across his country. He didnt. Why should be believe he is now waiting on the border to use them today or tomorrow? Because it serves the purpose of the current administration and its up coming mid term elections.[/P]
[P] War with Iraq will further weaken this countrys economy, and its major industries. Well all but the big defense ones. [/P]
[P]We need to finish what we started with terror. Put our money and energy there. Saddam has gone on fine being a bug for the last 11 + years. Why do we need to squash him right now? I think it really is for the mid term elections and the number it will bring a president and party that killed the economy.[/P]
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