Lcc's To Europe

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

( Note: I found this on the US board)

"Another LCC talking about Caribbean and International service"

Reuters

Thursday, March 4, 2004

NEW YORK: The low cost carrier Jet Blue airways plans to expand It's fleet by more than 5 times in the next few years, and to begin flying to "Overseas" destinations.

"We are looking at various Caribbean locations. Our product performs very well long-haul, and the Caribbean is a very big market out of N Y", said John Owen, Jet Blue's Chief Financial Officer.



Q. Has AA ever faced LCC's flying out of JFK before, to the caribbean and Europe ??

A. Yes, too many to count.

But most were either foreign(Laker), or "one horse" US outfits that were flying patcheck, to paycheck.

(obviously) Jet Blue is neither foreign, or "flying paycheck to paycheck" !!

OK, so where am I going with this ????

FACT # 1.
AA is "king of the hill" in the REAL #1 airport/city, in the WORLD !!!!!
(forget about ATL/ORD), and is close to completing a world class facility at JFK.

FACT # 2.
Jet Blue is "well heeled", politically "connected", with a very sharp CEO.

FACT # 3.
AA fully realizes that given JB "uniqueness"(1 and ONLY hub-JFK, and the fact that JB is "growing like wildfire"), that the oppertunity to "SQUASH" them "out of business", has "long passed" !!!!!!!!!!

(IMHO), "Something's got to give".

Most of us remember (uncle) Bobby Crandall, envisioning International flying ONLY(plus JFK-LAX/SFO)

I honestly don't think that after all this company has/is going through("reconstruction", if you will), that AMR is going to allow a "strongly entrenched, well heeled" outfit like JB, to cause MAJOR problems.(Yes they are already causing MINOR to MODERATE problems, and lets not lose sight of the fact that JB IS actively "noseing" around LGA)

SO, what happens next ????

Code share ??? I doubt it !

Merger ?? (IMHO) Quite possible.
Acquisition ?? (INHO) Quite possible

I know, I know, we don't have any "spare change" $$$ lying around !!!!!

BUT, sooner, rather than later, this JB(JFK) situation IS going to have to be dealt with.


Kind of like the Sen. John Edwards situation.
(Edwards) "I'm running for president, NOT vice-president" !!!

(fast forward)"I would be honored to be asked to be "ON THE TICKET" !!

Very interesting indeed !!!!!!!1

????

NH/BB's

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Plus JB is now in BOS, a very big AA market to Europe and the caribbean.

Their is a famous "old saying", that is "alive and well" today.
"If you can't beat em', join em' " !!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[Hopeful]

Let's see if those A320's can make it across the Atlantic. If they plan on flying overseas, then they are going to have to fly a larger aircraft. Once the regional jets arrive, JB will be flying 2 types of equipment. If they have their designs on overseas, then they'll have 3 types of equipment. That increases costs.

Look at Southwest, the most profitable carrier for the longest term running. They have stuck with their basic plan for well over 30 years. One type of equipment, gradual growth! Perfect formula for success.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Let's see if those A319's can make it across the Atlantic. If they plan on flying overseas, then they are going to have to fly a larger aircraft. Once the regional jets arrive, JB will be flying 2 types of equipment. If they have their designs on overseas, then they'll have 3 types of equipment. That increases costs.

Look at Southwest, the most profitable carrier for the longest term running. They have stuck with their basic plan for well over 30 years. One type of equipment, gradual growth! Perfect formula for success.

Hopeful,
Actually JB is all "320's", a somewhat larger and longer range a/c.
But your right, they'd have to go to at least a 757, to get over the "pond", which would raise their cost's, unlike SW.

I still think that the larger they grow, out of JFK AND LGA(????), the MORE of a threat they become.

Anyway, like everything else at AA(which we know only too well),
"Time will tell" !!!!!!!!

Regards,
NH/BB's

 

[Whadayano]

The Reuters report had a sloppy headline writer. Yes, I guess the Caribbean is 'overseas,' since the Caribbean is a sea. But it is not trans-Atlantic as so many have assumed. JBLU has said repeatedly they have no more interest in flying to Europe than Southwest does. Owen is only talking about the Caribbean. The A320 is probably too big for most markets down there except PR, where they already fly. But the ERJ-190 could probably do alright.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

The Reuters report had a sloppy headline writer. Yes, I guess the Caribbean is 'overseas,' since the Caribbean is a sea. But it is not trans-Atlantic as so many have assumed. JBLU has said repeatedly they have no more interest in flying to Europe than Southwest does. Owen is only talking about the Caribbean. The A320 is probably too big for most markets down there except PR, where they already fly. But the ERJ-190 could probably do alright.

Now that I think of it, your right, the article was a "little vague' on it's meaning of "overseas"

However,
While WN has NEVER shown an interest of "going overseas", DO NOT think that JB's Neeleman will surely "follow suit"

Neeleman is a "loose cannon", and I mean that in a complimentary way.
Throw in the fact that JB is sitting on it's ONLY hub in JFK, their well politically connected, which means that IMHO, they could be a LARGE problem, down the road.

"Vigilant", should be "the word", when it comes to JB!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[capeman]

Buy some EMB-170's or 190's and let Eagle go head to head with them out of JFK.

 

[Speedbird]

Let's see if those A319's can make it across the Atlantic.

You're probably not aware of Privatair which flies A319s out of EWR to Europe using a 48-seat all first-class service. They are a division of Lufthansa which uses BBJs and A319 LRs on scheduled international service from key business centers around the US to Europe.

Privatair Info

I wouldn't put it pass Neeleman to consider something like this out of JFK if it made them money and create another flanking attack on the "high yield" end of the legacy business. It would be a major departure from their original business plan, but they've already proven that they'll make those kind of changes if it makes business sense for them. As NH/BB has said Neeleman is a loose cannon. Personally, I doubt this will happen but this is definitely one way to start international service using their existing fleet type from the world's business capital. With jetBlue's strong brand identity in NY it would be another problem for AA to have to face in its most important market segment.

 

[Whadayano]

I would agree that if someone said, "would you like 7 or 8 slot pairs at LHR?" that Neeleman would jump at it. But then, who wouldn't pick up a $1000 bill that was blowing down the sidewalk? With the current politics of getting slots at major European airports a full-time contact sport requiring the 100% attention of someone in senior management, and trying to have a flexible schedule, and finding a city where they could get real volume all rolled into the problem, it would get to be too distracting. JB should think, let's do the Virgin Islands and Trinidad and Barbados and maybe a Mexican destination or two. And of course there's Canada--what could be greater than competing against the biggest basket case in N. America, Air Canada?

 

[mga707]

Actually JB is all "320's", a somewhat larger and longer range a/c.

I believe the A319 is actually a bit longer-ranged than the 320, just as the 737-700 has longer legs than the -800 (and the 727-100 could go farther than the -200).

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Actually JB is all "320's", a somewhat larger and longer range a/c.

I believe the A319 is actually a bit longer-ranged than the 320, just as the 737-700 has longer legs than the -800 (and the 727-100 could go farther than the -200).

mga707,
You must have done your homework.

But then again, IF the 319/320, 700/800, and 100/200 all had the same actual fuel capacity, (or larger in proportion), than it makes sense that the "lighter" a/c's will travel further.

NH/BB's

 

[AirwAr]

Let's see if those A319's can make it across the Atlantic. If they plan on flying overseas, then they are going to have to fly a larger aircraft. Once the regional jets arrive, JB will be flying 2 types of equipment. If they have their designs on overseas, then they'll have 3 types of equipment. That increases costs.

Look at Southwest, the most profitable carrier for the longest term running. They have stuck with their basic plan for well over 30 years. One type of equipment, gradual growth! Perfect formula for success.

As stated by various articles, the look of future airlines lies somewhere between today’s legacy carriers and the LCCs.

The following article talks to this point:
http://www.airlinebusiness.com/ab_frame.ht.../is_comment.asp

Legacy carriers have the network, but have the unenviable position of needing to reduce costs. LCCs have the costs, but have not yet been able to carry passengers from anywhere to everywhere.

Once JB has built up a connecting network using it's SJs and A320s, I don't think it would be that far out of an idea that JB could buy something like a 7E7 and start international service. Although 3 types of equipment will increase costs, it's still a pretty good position to be in for an air carrier. It only makes sense that legacy carriers reduce their fleet types to become more efficient, while LCCs increase their types to round out their networks.

What would be the minimum fleet mix that AA/Eagle could go to while maintaining most of its markets?
ERJ 170, 737, 7E7, 777

 

[Hopeful]

My mistake, they are all A320's.

 

[jimntx]

Everyone seems to be focussed on JB because of the JFK "connection." What about the announcement recently that ATA is looking hard at starting regularly scheduled service to Europe? They already have the aircraft, and when I attended a flight attendant info session, they stated that their current scheduled/charter mix was 60-40, but they expected the mix to include over 80% scheduled by the end of this year. True, this could result from an increase in domestic flying--not good for us either, but it also could result from starting up scheduled international flying.

Also, rumors continue that America West is in the market for long-distance, big capacity a/c--such as 747.

Considering that the scheduled flying time JFK-LHR is only 26 minutes longer than JFK-LGB, I can see a lot of travelers willing to go without a meal in return for an even cheaper ticket. A few years ago, I would have said, No Way. I thought of Virgin Atlantic, et al, to be a niche market for masochistic cheapskates. Today, passengers appear to be willing to endure almost any discomfort to save a few dollars on the fare.

I'm just surprised that there hasn't been a Southwest-style service to Europe before now.

 

[upsilon]

There used to be. It was called Laker. But BA did in Sir Freddie!