load of crap

kcabpilot

Senior
Aug 22, 2002
271
0
hmmm, interesting.

So while we've been sweating in the trenches with too much work and not enough people, no parts, no supplies, broken down equipment and tools - they've been learning how to make Powerpoint slides.

Wow, I'm impressed.
 
Oct 14, 2002
68
0
Where have you been Kcab Most everyone at Indy has been seeing these "great" power point presentations for a year now especially before they hand out the lay off notices. Glad to see so much time and money going to good use LMAO. If they spent half that amount of time working on employeee relations and building the company they might actually make some progress but as usual for now they prefer to digress to lower standards.
 

Segue

Senior
Oct 31, 2002
276
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Its an impressive business plan and well supported with analysis that outlines why "business as usual" is not an option.

Somebody out there sure broke their trust when they were given confidential documents.

Management should be more careful who they share this stuff with - now its public knowledge. What a great way to build confidence with your leadership!
 

PITbull

Veteran
Dec 29, 2002
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www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/17/2003 11:11:42 AM UnitedChicago wrote:

None of you realize the amount of work that goes into a finished presentation like this. This isn't just a PowerPoint that they pulled together in an hour.

If it's a load of crap - tell me...what's missing? If you're so quick to call it a load of crap - you surely have a reason.

I've asked all of the nay sayers to give an overview of how they would transform United. To-date, no one has responded.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Well, here's a no brainer...MARKET, MARKET, MARKET, THE AIRLINE, and RAISE the damn fares! Even the gov. raised the allowable mileage from .27 cents a mile to .32.

We have security measure costs and fuel prices. THEY ALL SHOULD BE RAISING FARES!

THIS IS A BUSINESS FOR PROFIT!
 

UnitedChicago

Veteran
Aug 27, 2002
756
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None of you realize the amount of work that goes into a finished presentation like this. This isn't just a PowerPoint that they pulled together in an hour.

If it's a load of crap - tell me...what's missing? If you're so quick to call it a load of crap - you surely have a reason.

I've asked all of the nay sayers to give an overview of how they would transform United. To-date, no one has responded.
 
Aug 20, 2002
1,423
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Valhalla
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/17/2003 11:11:42 AM UnitedChicago wrote:


I've asked all of the nay sayers to give an overview of how they would transform United. To-date, no one has responded.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Nonsense. Several times I've stated that the current UA BOD must be replaced. Those figureheads are still under the illusion that they control the company and their brinksmanship behavior hasn't changed, nor will it until the judge intervenes on behalf of the creditors.

Same question back to you: give me one example of how this BOD has transformed the company?
 

Segue

Senior
Oct 31, 2002
276
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/17/2003 11:25:25 AM PITbull wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/17/2003 11:11:42 AM UnitedChicago wrote:

None of you realize the amount of work that goes into a finished presentation like this. This isn't just a PowerPoint that they pulled together in an hour.

If it's a load of crap - tell me...what's missing? If you're so quick to call it a load of crap - you surely have a reason.

I've asked all of the nay sayers to give an overview of how they would transform United. To-date, no one has responded.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Well, here's a no brainer...MARKET, MARKET, MARKET, THE AIRLINE, and RAISE the damn fares! Even the gov. raised the allowable mileage from .27 cents a mile to .32.

We have security measure costs and fuel prices. THEY ALL SHOULD BE RAISING FARES!

THIS IS A BUSINESS FOR PROFIT!

----------------
[/blockquote]

Just exactly how do you raise fares without loosing share to your competitors?

Here's what happend to the latest attempt:

[url="http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030217/dam020_1.html"]http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030217/dam020_1.html[/url]

If UA had figured out how to raise prices, they would have done it a long time ago. I guess you must think all those people in revenue management are sitting on their hands?

Oh yes, the security fee is paid by the passengers not the carrier - its a pass-through add on to the ticket. Before TSA, the carriers paid for this directly as they were responsible for security.
 

kcabpilot

Senior
Aug 22, 2002
271
0
This management treats "labor" just like a piece of clipart that you can drag around and drop on some Powerpoint charts. They've never once come out of their lofty digs to solicit ANY feedback from any of the workers (you know, the people that do all the stuff that actually makes this airline function).

So now they've come up with this bean counters dream where a fresh new company with a fresh new product staffed with fresh new low paid "engaged" employees takes over the market by storm and pummels all of the current low cost carriers into oblivion. Now, would any of these fresh new low paid "engaged" employees have any ideas to contribute? Doesn't matter because none of them are going to be asked, just told. The Powerpoint slides have all been printed out in order and it would be just too much trouble to change any of them.

What's missing here is reality. Too many people hold up in offices spending too much time at computer screens.

And BTW Segue: this IS "status quo". We've seen plenty of these Powerpoint wonder plans in the past 10 years from the same group and not a single one of them has panned out. This one here though is the grandaddy of them all - one last ditch effort.
 

Ukridge

Senior
Aug 27, 2002
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Segue, I must say that I am in 100% agreement with you. I can sense your frustration with those lacking intellectual rigor when it comes to this industry. "Raise the fares." As you say if that had been possible then that would have been done even pre 9-11.
This is a polished and well thought out plan and it indeed took time to develop. I know many were screaming that Tilton did not have this on the table with 18 seconds of taking the harness. Apart from the brick-throwing masses this is the presentation that the Creditors and Wall Street were expecting. I thought pages 128,194,196, and 218 were of particular interest. 218 explores the novel concept of employees and employee groups being rewarded for superior performance. This has worked well at some of the European carriers. Tilton has said repeatedly that his orginization will be measure by performance. This of course makes many squirm. Accountablity in management, accountablity in employment. What a breath of fresh air.
I am sure the analysts will not subscribe to this plan but I think Mr. Tilton has quickly learned the underlying economics of this business and is on the path the restoring (future, out of BK) stockholder value. Is the road fraught with danger? Yes, of course. Will the plan work? Well, is there assurance the future will always be what we expect. United is still an angstrom away from the cliff. However good business practice can turn around the ship and I am heartened by what he proposes.
Do you think this was a stratigic leak? A shot across the bow of the other majors who have yet to fundamentally address their structural weaknesses?

For all the Luddites out there. Read this plan page by page. Measure it against the standards of a creditor. If this is a load of "crap" then I as a customer and potential stockholder (in the new co.) welcome the load!
Cheers!
 

flythewing

Member
Oct 7, 2002
77
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/17/2003 5:56:49 PM L1011Ret wrote:

......Having done a 4 hour Powerpoint presentation of my own ***( You and every high school student in the US)***, I know how huch thought and energy go into them ***(except for the templates available on the internet)***. People have spent a huge amount of careful thought preparing that plan.
A few interesting pints from the presentation. 18% percent of employees think leadership (GM and above) is doing a good job. Only 41% of LEADERSHIP thinks leadership is doing a good job.
A summary quote
OUR PLAN WILL REQUIRE TRANSFORMATIONAL CHANGE
...these actions must be carried out simultaneously and rapidly, BUT
ANYTHING LESS WOULD BE EVEN RISKIER.

Who wrote this? A high school student? I wrote more effective summaries in primary school.
 

Segue

Senior
Oct 31, 2002
276
0
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/17/2003 5:49:40 PM PITbull wrote:

[blockquote]
When a Co. is in bankruptcy, the BOD are pretty much just "figure heads". They do not make the decisions for the Co. UA is under the hospice of the courts until they emerge.
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[/blockquote]

"hospice" - excellent choice of words!!
 

autofixer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,804
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www.usaviation.com
WARNING: The above business plan has been tried and is being implemented at USAirways. Expect great pain and sacrifice, while management reaps the benefits. Expect employee groups to be pitted against each other and manipulated at managements' great pleasure--since they have all of the real information. Pilots, expect your pension to be terminated so that your union will go to a 1113 hearing and cause all of the other groups pensions to be terminated too; thus, allowing management to wash their hands of the whole situation and blame the pilots who have six figure incomes. Expect to be threatend with liquidation on a daily basis, unless you give into management's demands with no questions. Expect to be reminded by management and other employee groups that you cannot replace your income readily, because there are thousands of other airline employees on furlough.

Warning, I repeat, Warning, management is full of crap. You can make it on the outside. It is much more rewarding and enjoyable. Let management eat cake.

That is all...That's enough!
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UnitedChicago

Veteran
Aug 27, 2002
756
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mr. hell:

removing the BOD is out of the question for now. while i agree that they have failed numerous times over the last 2 years - you just can't remove the bod at this time.

who would replace them? how much time would it take to replace them? how long does the new bod need to determine their own plan?

ua just doesn't have the time to do that drastic of a move.

so you've got to work with what ya got.

in terms of them transforming the company - they have a proposal to do just that. creating a lcc to compete with southwest, et al. reduced costs across the entire operation.

i think that's a pretty big transformation - as long as they can come to agreement with all stakeholders.

what would you propose the current bod do differently?

Pitbull:

You can't be serious about raising fares.