Loan Guarantee approved

autofixer

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Aug 20, 2002
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I thought that this was contingent on the pilots getting screwed out of their earned retirement. I don't believe the judge has ruled yet? It is just more lies by management. I am happy the loan was approved.
 

Zephyr

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Feb 11, 2003
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Itrade,

Congratulations may not be the word I would have chosen, but indeed there has been a victory, so I guess it should be recognized in some manner. I think condolences are in order to some and… well I don’t know exactly what I would say to the others.

I find it interesting how quickly we forget that the loan was approved many months ago upon condition of employee concessions. Since that time, the employees have capitulated to management’s take-it-or-leave-it demands so many times, giving up so much, it is difficult to even add the various “re-writes†and “re-re-writes†of the employee contracts. Adding up the value of employee concessions to date is difficult, but I think most would agree that it might easily top 7 billion dollars.

Nonetheless, the point is that the loan was conditionally approved once before, and notwithstanding today’s headline, it is still not in the coffer.

It is amazing to me how effective this route has been. Who could have ever dreamed, “Employees give up 7 billion (and still counting) to get 900 million.â€

And people think Wolf is retired…






(As pilots resolve begins to solidify over pension raid, government delivers final blow to the heart)

Tuesday February 11, 1:42 pm ET


WASHINGTON, Feb 11 (Reuters) - US Airways Group Inc received government approval on Tuesday for a $900 million loan guarantee that is critical to the carrier's bid to reorganize under bankruptcy protection The guarantee from the Air Transportation Stabilization Board -- the government entity set up to assist financially struggling airlines after the Sept 11, 2001 hijack attacks -- will underpin $1 billion in private financing.

The airline must still meet several new conditions before the government will activate the guarantee. They include finalizing concession deals with workers, obtaining final bankruptcy court approval of its reorganization proposal, and regulatory and judicial clearance of its plan to eliminate its pilot's union retirement plan.

The board agreed to take a 10 percent stake in US Airways and said it may seek more agreements on other matters with the carrier before the bankruptcy process ends. US Airways plans to emerge from bankruptcy at the end of March.

Zephyr
 

The Real Deal

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Aug 20, 2002
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I believe I read that this letter was a "confirmation" of the previous conditional aproval. If the news article just used the wrong words and this is indeed final, what does that do to the pension issue? Can the ATSB pull it back if the judge rules to keep the pension plan as is?
 

Zephyr

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Feb 11, 2003
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The Real Deal,

The possibility and probability for confusion was no doubt by design. Everybody wants to believe that $900 million is in the U bank account already. But the bold words below make it pretty clear.

“The airline must still meet several new conditions before the government will activate the guarantee.

I’ld like to give the benefit of the doubt too, but let’s face it, if you had the authority to sign a $900 million check, would you be tempted to do it for free?

Or would you instead, LOUDLY announce to every one that you have approved the $900 million, and then during the euphoria, quietly tell the pilots that they better not disappoint everyone…

The first time the employees said “yesâ€￾ to Wolf, they chose “death by 40 lashes.â€￾ And sadly they have only received about 25 lashes so far.

Zephyr
 

gogogadget

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Aug 21, 2002
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You must also remember that the Govt is not giving U the loan, they are only guaranteeing it or co-signing. The money come from outside lendes that are willing to accept the GOV backing their money. The Outside lenders also have their huge hurdles that U has to overcome also. This Statement is meant to give warm fuzzies to those that may be holding out and to Sweet home alabama pension fund. I am not knocking it because it is also a small sparkle for many hard working U employees!

TCOEO
 

PITbull

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Dec 29, 2002
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Savy,

I am sorry, but what is the "sparkle" for the employees at U?

We as labor have been "gutted". Many emplyees will liquidate their own personal assets as a consequence, even those that got to keep their jobs. We are in these agreements for many, many years to come, even if this co. makes zillions. Many of us are struggling with medical expenses and putting food on the table and financing it to boot, all this chaos in 6 months only to qualify for a damn loan guarantee (so we've been told).

Now, ponder this...if all the airlines do this same, exact plan, what advantage is it to anyone. We will all be competing now as Low cost carriers, instead of high cost carriers. All relative. Now, who will have the edge???? Anyone????

Hate to say this, but I believe this industry needs "regulated" again.

Only folks that will suffer in this process is the Labor groups for many years, and anyone who had owned stock.

.
 

autofixer

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Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/11/2003 4:40:56 PM savyinvestor wrote:

[blockquote]

----------------

On 2/11/2003 4:30:09 PM gogogadget wrote:


You must also remember that the Govt is not giving U the loan, they are only guaranteeing it or co-signing. The money come from outside lendes that are willing to accept the GOV backing their money. The Outside lenders also have their huge hurdles that U has to overcome also. This Statement is meant to give warm fuzzies to those that may be holding out and to Sweet home alabama pension fund. I am not knocking it because it is also a small sparkle for many hard working U employees!


TCOEO

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[/blockquote]

Its' really quite simple. The pilots play ball or no loan and everyone loses their job. Savy
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[/blockquote]
How about management plays ball and lives up to their promises or everyone loses their job. The pilots have been playing ball and in the 9th inning management said they wanted to play a new game.
 

savyinvestor

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Jan 15, 2003
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/11/2003 4:30:09 PM gogogadget wrote:

You must also remember that the Govt is not giving U the loan, they are only guaranteeing it or co-signing. The money come from outside lendes that are willing to accept the GOV backing their money. The Outside lenders also have their huge hurdles that U has to overcome also. This Statement is meant to give warm fuzzies to those that may be holding out and to Sweet home alabama pension fund. I am not knocking it because it is also a small sparkle for many hard working U employees!

TCOEO
----------------
[/blockquote]
Its' really quite simple. The pilots play ball or no loan and everyone loses their job. Savy
 

gogogadget

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Aug 21, 2002
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Pitbul,

The sparkle is that with all of this posturing, the pilots just might have their butt handed to them by the judge and they just might come to some sort of a deal. Or this could all be over soon and everyone will be getting entering the grieving process from the death of US Airways which is also part of the recovery!

Not trying to be morbid and I hope the Pilots do save their pension!
 

delldude

Veteran
Oct 29, 2002
28,253
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Downrange
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[ ----------------

----------------

[/
----------------
[/blockquote]
How about management plays ball and lives up to their promises or everyone loses their job. The pilots have been playing ball and in the 9th inning management said they wanted to play a new game.
----------------
[/blockquote]
finally the skyboyz realize their place in the pecking order.once high dreams of being'management cronies'...since shattered now by a few saavy headhunters.in the end,just another labor group ......just another problem child.
 

diogenes

Veteran
Aug 22, 2002
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/11/2003 2:49:00 PM Zephyr wrote:

It is amazing to me how effective this route has been. Who could have ever dreamed, “Employees give up 7 billion (and still counting) to get 900 million.”

And people think Wolf is retired…

-------------------------------------------

That is the salient point. Anybody stop to think the value of our 'givebacks' exceeds the value of U? Coulda bought the damn thing outright!




 

Zephyr

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Feb 11, 2003
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It is apparently common knowledge at Crystal City that Wolf arrives to work every morning like clockwork.

It is rumored that Dave is always there to great him with his morning cup of java and a resounding praise of “YOU DA MAN!â€￾ to which Wolf humbly replies, “NO, AUSTIN. YOU DA MAN!â€￾ [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/10.gif'] Slowly a big sugar-eatin-grin forms on both their faces and they leap into the air, high-five each other and pump their fists like Pete Samprass and Tiger Woods, saying, [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif'] “YEAH!! WE DA MEN!!â€￾ [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif']

So I’ve heard. But it didn't make me laugh...
 

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