Luv Pilot Progression

[AMRCostUnit]

I am an 11 year pilot (FO) for AA and have 20 years to go. AA has been described as "a submarine just above crush depth pump out water as fast as it is coming in. If any happens, down we go..." Lovely analogy huh?

I am seriously considing getting out of AA while the getting is good and coming over to SWA. I have applied thru the website and am aware of requriements like the type rating (I just finished IOE on AA's 737-800; how convienent?)

I am concerned about your FA contract as the things I am reading on other boards sound way too much like what I have heard here at AA over time. I don't want to give up 11 years of seniorty for the same set of problems! I can say here at AA management is more concerned about their bonus plans/company cars/country club membership/SERP's/guaranteed retirement in case of BK (and how to get the employees to pay for them. I have taken a $4000/month, yep $4000/month paycut) but I'm not sure that is what SWA's management is all about. I think they care about the company much more than they do over here. But I am an outsider....

From a pilot perspective, what are the progession prospects of a guy getting hired this year with 20 years to go in tems of retirements and growth?

What is the current status of SWA looking at the RJ?

Here is a tip: DON'T EVER GIVE UP ANY FLYING! Here at AA our commuter American Eagle is growing 35% this years hiring 60 pilots a month into the RJ FO seat for $21 an hour. They have taken over 6 more gates at ORD (H1-H6) and have the entire G concourse. Taking delivery of 4 RJ's per month (all backed by the cash generated by AA and my $4k/mo paycut) All the cities I flew to when I was on the Fokker 100 are now Eagle. 100 lines of flying gone forever.

Post any comments here or private email at [email protected].

Thanks!

 

[L1011Ret]

I was offered employment at UAL and applied to AA but TWA's International operation appealed to me. I went with TWA in 1964 and had great years there up till the early 90s. Within 5 years I was flying the Pacific as an F/O and eventually moved to L-1011 Captain on International. I have to say my experience at TWA was nothing but great. I was even based in places like Athens and Vienna. It lasted till TWA had to sell its International routes to AA in the early 90s. Then TWA was in C-11 and 400 of us senior pilots were offered some retirement perks to leave, mainly we were given our retirement monies in cash. It appeared that TWA might not make it and our retirements would be "downsized" under the PBGC. Well, we were a little off, TWA lasted 10 more shaky years. Nonetheless, it was as good a career as a pilot or anyone could hope for. I just went past the old TWA terminal 5 on the airtrain last week and felt quite a bit of sorrow. It was like losing a loved one.

Watching the ups and downs of various carriers over the years, I would never have forseen what is happening now. The competion is so fierce that there are going to be more casualties either in the form of liquidations or consolidations. In 1964 I could not have picked who might still be standing. Later I thought Peoples Express was going to conquer the world. As it turned out, some of my F/Os and F/Es were 747 Captains at Peoples Express. Now we think B6, F9 and SWA are the upcoming owners of the aviation world. Maybe, maybe not. Predicting the future is the most hazardous of games with the probablity of success less than 50%. Unless you are an oracle complete with tea leaves.

I would not count AA out. They have driven their costs below their legacy competitors, probably below those of the two in bankruptcy. Oops US Air is out of bankruptcy but appears nearly down for the count while DAL and NW are struggling with their high costs.

My advice, enjoy your flying. Take advantage of passes and contribute more to your retirement. Life is a bit of a crapshoot but how you cope with what comes your way is the most important thing. Don't spend your time with contentious issues between unions and management. Live for today and not the future. There is not any career I know of that gives you more time off at a high salary than being an Airline Captain for a major carrier. Regards.

 

[txskygal]

Hi AMR. First of all; good luck whatever decision you make! It's a tough one that will have permanent affects on your and your family's life.

We were told the other day, that there wil be about 800 FA's hired in each year 2004, 05, and 06. Which means that (more or less) 500-600 pilots will be hired, also. The majority of these will be based in BWI; as it's on an expansion mode.

Having worked for Braniff 2 in DAL, where we referred to Bob Crandall as "Darth Crandall"; I wouldn't count AA out. I always thought they were/are some of the toughest competition ANY airline could face. I don't foresee them going under, permanently. But, I am no seer, either.

My great hope is that no airline goes under; and that no employee loses their job. I would hope that those of us who are multiple airline employees, and those of us who've been in the industry for a significant time; would NEVER wish another airline ill. Sure, I want mine to be profitable and do a great job. But, I wish everyone well.

Sorry, for such a long reply. But again, God Bless and good luck!

 

[FWAAA]

As market forces drive down pilot wages at most other airlines, it is only a matter of time until management at WN is forced to approach its pilots with a similar "request." After all, how long can WN pilots make more money than AA 738 pilots before WN shareholders begin demanding some changes??

And if the WN pilots refuse, there will always be yet another Soros/Neeleman combo ready to start yet another non-union LCC/Low Fare airline.

The union contracts will insulate the employees from such drastic changes in the short term, but in the long term, market forces will prevail. They always have, and they always will.

Of course, even if this happens, it is perhaps more likely that WN will be in business longer than some of the legacy network airlines, and if you wait until the doors are padlocked at your legacy network employer before you jump ship, your prospects might not be so good.

Tough call. At least AA pilots know how much they will make for the next few years. Are WN pilots as confident? B)

 

[Tanker]

FWAAA
Yeas the SW pilots are confident about how much we will make in the next few years. Parker has already said that SWA will pay the negotiated raises due in Sept. In 2006 we will have our Section 6 negotiations so who knows but I doubt very much a pay cut will be acceptable. We also are confident that we won't be furloughing in the next few years. In fact the palns are to hire at least 1200 pilots over the next 3 years.

 

[hobbes]

This is just my personal opinion, but I don't think you're going to be seeing Southwest asking for pay cuts from it's employees anytime soon. Southwest has always used the phrase "manage in the good times for the bad." Because the bad times always will come. Rather than burning money during those good times, as many of the legacy carriers did, Southwest played it conservative. And make no mistake: that's a big part of why we survived 9/11 and all that followed.

And as long as our CASMs are lower than almost any airline out there (and the lowest when adjusted for stage length), why would there be any need to ask for concessions from employees? Southwest has plenty of cost-saving measures in place already, so unless something drastically changes, Management shouldn't need to be coming to the employees with their hands held out, asking for givebacks.

The key is in management's approach, or so I believe. Costs are taken into considerations in everything, and I do mean everything, that happens in this company. As I said in another thread, I've worked for three other companies, and the cost-saving drive that lies within the employees and management of this company is amazing, like nothing I've ever seen. As long as Southwest management continues their cautious approach to spending, I think our employees won't have to worry about concessions anytime soon.