Maa - Republic Sale

LGA777

Senior
Jan 21, 2003
495
2
There is new E-170 service slated to begin Sept 4th between LGA and BUF,CMH,IND.PHL and IND-PHL and it is shown being operated by Republic. Does anyone know are there Mid-Atlantic aircraft and crews availible to fly these flights as I am starting to doubt Republic will be actually flying them ?

Thanks LGA777
 

EmbPilot

Member
Jul 10, 2005
15
0
Yes there is a class that has finished training (including 2 MDA pilots) one of which was the Chief Pilot. The aircraft will begin flights on Sept 4th.
 

RowUnderDCA

Veteran
Oct 6, 2002
2,123
1
www.usaviation.com
I'm not sure I understand the contractual obligations between the parties. It appears that there is speculation that there may be some ambiguity. But my question is this:

IF it is true that Bedford has the ball in his court AND
U can still reject other Bedford U Express flying under his other certs

Would the bankruptcy judge look kindly on U rejecting Bedfords other flying out of nothing more than spite? I mean is that a legitimate reason?

"Your honor, we at old U don't want to go forward with the 170 transaction with Bedford, cuz our new U management wants to keep it.. circumstances changed or whatever, so we want to punish Bedford for not agreeing to cancel the deal."

Or does management need to come up with some other fig leaf.... like say, U says it now wants to cull its RJ fleet (despite the fact that all of its prior plans called for utilizing this larger fleet with Bedford and AWAC).

Finally, how does U communicate this to Bedford (apply the threat?)

Is some of this HP union discussion really just about telescoping Parker's feelings about the prospect without his seeming to be calling the shots at old U?

Maybe this is all in my head.
 

Rico

Veteran
Jun 8, 2004
1,006
0
Although not thrilled with the idea of E190's on our property, Rico you cannot now look and say we are looking to "Staple" anyone to the bottom. This J4J agreement is the same as it has been for 2 years now. There is no change in the way it will be maintained. If you were hired at any other airline (which CHQ/REP is) you start at the bottom. Nobody walks into another airline and gets better than that. What is crappy about it is that you must deal with it. What this current deal in fact will do in my understanding is allow all J4J pilots to come to CHQ/REP IF THEY desire. Nobody will hold a gun to your head, you may come if you wish.

1. The LOA 91 Grievence is still yet to be decided. The entire MDA sell-off is yet to be decided. You act like just because your IBT made some grand decision to expand JFJ on your property that everything is settled. Think again.

2. I am not "hiring on" at CHQ, if that is the case, then your company has to fully train me, not the quicky indoc class and 2 sims they want us to do. That is what is called TRANSITION TRAINING, not hew hire training pal. Anyways, If I really wanted to hire on as a CHQ new hire I would have done so back in the J32/Saab days> No, Your company is buying part of my company, and the fragmentation protection (although watered down) is still in effect I am transitioning to Republic (like a CHQ guy moving between your operations), and should be treated as such, not as a F-ing New Hire.

3. Damn right it is a "Staple Job", you just do not like to call it that because it makes your pilots sound bad. What else would you call being placed in order right at the bottom of your senority list... Well...?

The fact is that if YOUR company wants my experience, professionalism, and skill then they should respect the MDA pilots enough to treat us on equal terms as any other CHQ pilot moving over into Republic.

There is no training agreement that I have read about, there is none of the other issues I have read about negatively by fellow MDA pilots.
Well, you are either ignorant, or have chosen to "look the other way"

I hope that things will work out to keep the E190's where they should be, at the Mainline, but I will not "shoot myself in the foot" by voting against increasing our J4J program. It will provide jobs for both CHQ/REP pilots, and will provide jobs for MDA pilots that still want to fly the E170 and possibly the E190's.
Put it this way, I would make more working at Home Depot, awaiting my recall, than as an F/O or Reserve Captain for Republic. So I do not care one bit about the "Job". What I do care about is working hard, flying right, and providing a great product to my passengers... In return for a enjoyable workplace/flying, and good people to work with and for.

So far "Republic" and the IBT have seemed to offer nothing of the sort... And until they do, good luck getting anyone other than the mercenary-esque pilot like yourself to come to work for Republic...

But then again, that just might be the way it is, with this last statement of yours as proof...

Were we owned in any way by U things might be different, but CHQ/REP is a business, and we are all stuck with mopping up what is thrown at us.

Nice... :down:
 

FL370

Member
Aug 20, 2002
31
0
RowUnderDCA said:
I'm not sure I understand the contractual obligations between the parties. It appears that there is speculation that there may be some ambiguity. But my question is this:

IF it is true that Bedford has the ball in his court AND
U can still reject other Bedford U Express flying under his other certs

Would the bankruptcy judge look kindly on U rejecting Bedfords other flying out of nothing more than spite? I mean is that a legitimate reason?
[post="289196"][/post]​


It seems its too late for Airways to back out on other associated flying, the court has already affirmed the contract concerning the 145.


If you recall, our March investor agreement with US Airways had 3 components:
1. Affirmation of our current RJ agreement;
2. An asset purchase agreement; and
3. An equity participation agreement

The first component was fulfilled on March 31, when the bankruptcy court affirmed our E145 RJ agreement. Of course that affirmation is only good so long as US Airways actually emerges from bankruptcy.
 

Rico

Veteran
Jun 8, 2004
1,006
0
Geeze, it's not that hard to figure out.

Your company (Republic/CHQ) is not so thrilled to continue with the Midatlantic purchase because of the labor issues involved.

What they would like to do is get into their own USX E-190's instead, only under the provisions of JFJ, not LOA 91 (in the same way as the CHQ E-145's).

Best bet is that your company is willing to walk away from the Midatlantic purchase for their own reasons, plus the incentive of getting into the larger and larger Republic profit margin involved with flying the larger E-190's for U

What else would be involved...? Well I would assume that a further reduction of the smaller aircraft your company operates for US Airways Express would be part of it as well (in return for getting E-190s), as Mr. Parker seems to want to reduce the RJ fleet as much as possible, especially the use of E-145's at U.

So like I said, everything is on the table. I would not pay too much attention to what was agreed to before... Chances are better than not that something totally different will be the result.
 

CHQDRVR

Member
Apr 23, 2004
45
0
Rico said:
Geeze, it's not that hard to figure out.

Your company (Republic/CHQ) is not so thrilled to continue with the Midatlantic purchase because of the labor issues involved.

What they would like to do is get into their own USX E-190's instead, only under the provisions of JFJ, not LOA 91 (in the same way as the CHQ E-145's).

Best bet is that your company is willing to walk away from the Midatlantic purchase for their own reasons, plus the incentive of getting into the larger and larger Republic profit margin involved with flying the larger E-190's for U

What else would be involved...? Well I would assume that a further reduction of the smaller aircraft your company operates for US Airways Express would be part of it as well (in return for getting E-190s), as Mr. Parker seems to want to reduce the RJ fleet as much as possible, especially the use of E-145's at U.

So like I said, everything is on the table. I would not pay too much attention to what was agreed to before... Chances are better than not that something totally different will be the result.
[post="289597"][/post]​

Now this post makes sense, rather than all your screaming about "mercenary" pilots and "snot-nosed" kids wanting to fly your planes.

Some Facts: There will be no 170s on the CHQ certificate after October 1; that certificate will revert entirely to 37/44/50 seat flying to return to compliance with the APA scope clause. There will be 2 certificates flying 170s; Republic and Shuttle America.

Bedford has said publicly and repeatedly that he wants out of the 50 seat market, and CHQ has already removed 3 145s from the Airways fleet for September. The agreement to fly 170s for DL included cancellation of the last 9 145 orders for that codeshare. In other words, the 135/140/145 fleet is a dying product, and we've known it for some time.

Much as the MDA pilots have said that your major focus is integration into the compined HP/US seniority list, for us at CHQ our ratification of the increased J4J protocol has very little to do with increased J4J at all. Rather the agreement comes with some side letters to significantly improve other areas of our QOL that are important to us. The vast majority of us don't really foresee 190s in our future here, since neither the current HP nor AAA scope clauses allow them at affiliate carriers. That's fine with us. What we do foresee is that within the next couple years Republic Airways Holdings will transition from a 130 plane fleet with mostly 50-seaters to a 130 plane fleet with mostly 70+ seaters. The remaining E145-type flying will likely be only the 135s and 140s for DL and AA, respectively.

So what we really see is our company making a rather large shift in the type of flying it does, NOT continued exponential growth. Our focus over here is continuing to improve our QOL, as most of us believe the company's size is maturing and leveling quickly. I could really care less what happens with the MDA airplanes; what was largely a professional and friendly group of pilots has turned into yet another whiny bunch of "you're stealing my flying" stereotypes.

P.S. Don't know what continued difficulties Republic is supposed to be having in getting the certificate; look for an announcement VERY soon regarding certification.
 

Rico

Veteran
Jun 8, 2004
1,006
0
I could really care less what happens with the MDA airplanes; what was largely a professional and friendly group of pilots has turned into yet another whiny bunch of "you're stealing my flying" stereotypes
Someday, and it will come (trust me), when someone is stealing your flying, and leaving your high and dry senority-wise you might understand...

Wait a sec..

That already happened to your pilots. Ahhh yes, I remember the tears flowing when your company proposed that Republic would be separate from you, that flying not done by your pilots, and that airline not represented by your union...

Yeah, you guys and gals were mega-whiny... "How dare" your company do such a thing. "How dare" any pilots come in and take over "your flying"... Was it not nice of the US Airways pilots to support your fight against such back then...?

But ahhh, now times have changed, eh..?

You know, calling us kettles black sure makes you pots look either real forgetful, or really full of...
 

Light Years

Veteran
Aug 27, 2002
2,878
0
www.usaviation.com
CHQDRVR said:
P.S. Don't know what continued difficulties Republic is supposed to be having in getting the certificate; look for an announcement VERY soon regarding certification.
[post="290391"][/post]​

:lol: :lol: :lol: Are you shitting me? They've been talking about "getting a certificate for Republic" for going on four years now!

Take your planes and get your own airline. You have no argument. You take jobs, you have nothing of your own.

You and your bunch are making yourselves very popular.
 

St. Leibowitz

Member
Aug 19, 2002
60
0
A few years ago I was in my USAir painted Turboprop and was told by ground control to "follow the 'company' 737." Immediately over the radio comes "They're NOT company"

I still fly for my "not company" airline, having declined to succumb to the shiny Boeing syndrome; preferring instead to keep the bird in hand and basing my decision on current events of the (pre 9/11) day. My decisions have established me as a relatively senior captain at a "not company" airline. Yours have, in hindsight, not been so kind.

Perhaps the IBT pilots were greedy, but might they not think the U pilots were not equally so to expect to take over the top third of a previously unworthy airline's seniority list because their decision to go to the bigs didn't work out? No one is entitled to "do-overs." Adam and Eve first learned that harsh lesson and it holds true even today. In this life you make your decisions and live with the results, for good or ill.
 

CHQDRVR

Member
Apr 23, 2004
45
0
Light Years said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Are you shitting me? They've been talking about "getting a certificate for Republic" for going on four years now!

Take your planes and get your own airline. You have no argument. You take jobs, you have nothing of your own.

You and your bunch are making yourselves very popular.
[post="290904"][/post]​
Light Years, you're ill-informed. The first incarnation of Republic was begun in early 2003, as a union-busting tool to fly 145s as a non-union carrier. The company discontinued this after CHQ's current CBA was signed in October of '03. Wexford and Republic Airways Holdings began working to certify Republic again in early 2004, after the award of the 170 flying on behalf of UA. So, less than two years, rather than four. My comment vs. imminent certification comes from specific information that has never been previously shared with us. Could I be wrong? Sure, but I don't think so. We'll all know soon.

As for "my bunch" you don't know me and you're making a big assumption. I've been mostly a lurker on this forum for a couple years, due to a passion and concern for US Airways. Not only is my job welfare directly tied to the success of your company, I have many friends and relatives working (or furloughed) from US and its predecessors. You have been consistently one of the most negative posters towards all things "Express". Got news for you. Approximately 1/4 of the current CHQ seniority list consists of pilots furloughed from just about ALL the major carriers (US before we had J4J, AA, TW, NW, UA, and DL off the top of my head). They're hardly a bunch of snot-nosed kids who want to steal everyone else's job. Additionally, for me personally, I have been both a ramper and Flight Attendant for another major carrier, back when I had only a high-school diploma. (This carrier "knows why you fly"). So I know exactly what it takes to be hired and perform your job. Can you say the same about mine?
 

CHQDRVR

Member
Apr 23, 2004
45
0
Rico said:
Someday, and it will come (trust me), when someone is stealing your flying, and leaving your high and dry senority-wise you might understand...

Wait a sec..

That already happened to your pilots. Ahhh yes, I remember the tears flowing when your company proposed that Republic would be separate from you, that flying not done by your pilots, and that airline not represented by your union...

Yeah, you guys and gals were mega-whiny... "How dare" your company do such a thing. "How dare" any pilots come in and take over "your flying"... Was it not nice of the US Airways pilots to support your fight against such back then...?

But ahhh, now times have changed, eh..?

You know, calling us kettles black sure makes you pots look either real forgetful, or really full of...
[post="290902"][/post]​
We were "mega-whiny?" Well, if we said "how dare" anyone take our flying then, yep, probably. Other than that, definitely not. Let's clear this up. As a CHQ pilot the only flying I regard as mine is that done using the assets of Republic Airways Holdings. Whatever amount of flying US group (OR DL, UA, etc) allots to other companys is its own business. I do not regard AW as "stealing my flying" on the US code, nor Mesa/Freedom as "stealing" my DL flying. When I hear a CHQ pilot speak as such I speak up to correct them.

What I don't want to see is my own holding company take jets I'm already flying and place them with another entity it owns, which is what was happening with the original Republic. Oddly enough, this is very similar to what US is doing to y'all, with the exception that Republic Airways Holdings is not owned by US group. You'll note (or maybe not, you guys have been awful busy throwing stones at my "greedy, immature, mercenary" pilot group) that I haven't really disputed the moral or ethical ramifications of what US wants (or wanted) to do with the 170 flying.

My argument has been with the attacks on my pilot group for upholding the language we fought for in our own CBA, vs. RAH scope. Obviously the language in my CBA directly conflicts with LOA 91, if the MDA sale is indeed a change of control. My personal take is that it can't be a change of control if there's no separate entity, defined here as an operating certificate. However, the purchase of all the aircraft plus simulators and other assets sure smells like a change of control in the moral, intended, sense, vs. the letter of the law. It will be interesting to see how the arbitrator rules.
 

EmbPilot

Member
Jul 10, 2005
15
0
Proving runs for Republic airlines have already begun. Certification will be by the end of August 05.
 

xoxo

Veteran
Aug 4, 2003
753
0
www.usaviation.com
I'll only beleive it when it actually happens. I am tired of the "I heards" "I was told" and all of that crap....(I am guilty of it too) but, lets just all wait and see what happens.