Maa

[Light Years]

Now that the pilots have given permission to outsource, well, pretty much the whole airline, is there a point in anyone going to MAA? How many planes will they get now? I'd guess not many, but the mass of **** affiliate carriers will and pretend to be US while MAA stagnates just like its employees former "major" airline job.

I know MAA was a pretty bum deal to begin with (again, agreed to however...) but at least it had Airways people doing Airways flying.

Everyone is screwed, but it seems like the flight attendants are the most screwed. Pilots have Jets 4 Jobs, and whether its mainline, mainline express, or w/o express, the ground work is handled by Group employees. What do the F/As get?

Those new planes are already doing everything the 737 does, and will continue to do so, only now it'll be someone else doing it. The 279 rule will probably go, and I'm sure the 190 and 195 will come too. And if anyone thinks they are going to mainline they must be partying with Whitney Houston. And even if they did, they have 100 seats and only need 2 F/As. So goodbye to thousands more.

 

[Light Years]

Please. US would rather have someone else do it and not have to worry about paying for its own employees benefits and pay, and maintaining thier own planes and facilities.

Major airlines are still expected to provide standard benefits you'd get working at KMart, while regional airlines have primed employees into feeling "lucky to be there" and therefore paying them a cracker and a nickel. That results in much lower costs that are passed on to US when they pay for it. Who cares about quality? The customers, and maybe the axed employees, but oh, well- they dont see ya leaving!

How ridiculous is it to have TEN airlines operating as the "Express" (what a joke) for a tiny mostly small narrowbody regional airline? But they know they can pit the poor sods against each other for cost/dignity and get rid of them at any time... cant do that as well with your own employees, particularly if its a large unified group.

I assure you you'll see a Chautauqua, Mesa, Al's Airline or whoever-bloody-else operating the 170s SOON.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Bob,

"LOA 91 is the key to keeping the funding."

If one accepts the assumption that GECAS was worried about their financial committment to US, I look at it this way.

1) Does LOA 91 change the financial picture presented by US - no.

2) Does LOA 91 change the financial risk to GECAS if the financing stays as previously negotiated - no.

3) What will change the financial risk to GECAS - moving the RJ's they are financing to other airlines - affiliates and/or competitors.

4) What does LOA 91 do - allows the Emb-170's and more CRJ-701's to go to affiliates.

5) Probable outcome - at least some of the RJ's will go to affiliates instead of W/O'ed or MAA.

Jim

 

[ktflyhome]

BoeginBoy: I was just about to ask, "Where is JIM"? Please explaine this LOA91 to me, so that my pea brain can understand it. Thanks, Kt :huh:

 

[BoeingBoy]

kt,

Without going into a two page disertation, it does basically what I said above. More of the larger RJ's can end up at affiliates. The basic premise of LOA 91 is to allow more of the financial burden of the RJ's to be borne by others instead of US, thus spreading GECAS's risk around.

Jim

 

[Crzipilot]

Under LOA
91, there would be no MDA fragmentation clause if aircraft are sold to a non-affiliate, but there would be
J4J jobs at the 50% level for MDA pilots with the participating affiliate, and the feed would remain in the
US Airways system.,
the problem with the 700's was the first 25 was supposed to be 100% J4J people then it went to 50/50 of the staffing. 91 basically eased that requirement to all the 700's can be flown 50/50. Also some fragmentation language was changed.

 

[ktflyhome]

I don't get it. So GECAS has given U financing to purchase airplanes, the E170's so we can in turn give them over to affiliates. Is this what I am reading???

So, the bank gives me financing so that I go buy an apartment building, and then I turn this apartment building over to some one else to run and make money off of??

 

[BoeingBoy]

Crzipilot,

I was giving a broad-brush discription of LOA 91. The Dec 03 scope changes allowed for the larger RJ's to go to W/O'ed/affiliates (just not the Emb-170).

The first 25 CRJ-701's you mentioned pertained to the first 25 going to W/O'ed - not the first 25 going anywhere.

These are quotes from LOA 91 with my comments in brackets ([]):

6. Up to 55 Large SJs (CRJ-700/701 aircraft only) may be placed
into revenue operation by Participating Affiliate Carriers, provided
that they are placed into revenue service no later than December 31,
2006, and provided further that they are subject to the Jets for Jobs
Protocol with a 50% Jets for Jobs Percentage. [increases number]

f. One hundred percent of the deliveries and firm orders of
Participating Wholly Owned Carriers and MDA
(currently 170 total SJs) could be sold, leased or
transferred to one or more Participating Affiliates [this includes the Emb-170's]

The limits on Large SJs that may be operated by Participating Affiliate
Carriers described in the sixth bullet point under “Authorityâ€￾ above
shall be automatically revised to increase the number of, and to include
the type of (e.g., CRJ-700/701), Large SJs that may be operated by
Participating Affiliate Carriers by the number and type of aircraft
operated or on order by such Participating Wholly Owned Carrier
pursuant to this provision [further increases # of CRJ-701's that can be flown by affiliates if aircraft are diverted from W/O'ed or the W/O'ed is sold in its entirety]

Placement of Small Jets:
Large SJs:
• Will be placed only at MDA, a Participating Wholly Owned
Carrier or a Participating Affiliate Carrier, subject to the
terms and conditions set forth in “Authorityâ€￾ above.
• EMB-170/175 equipment will be placed only at MDA unless
placed at a Participating Affiliate Carrier pursuant to an
Aircraft Sale Event or an MDA Affiliate Event as described
above. [there's the method of moving Emb-170's from MAA]

Well, that's enough for now....

The short version is that the company can pretty much move RJ's/Emb-170's where-ever they want.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Bob,

I certainly don't know how the financial community will view passage of LOA 91. I only know that LOA 91 does not begin "tackling the labor and cost issues" that we confront - if anything it may worsen the longer term cost issue by moving RJ's to affiliates where we pay them a profit to operate these airplanes. On the flip side, if these RJ's keep operating in U's colors instead on someone else's, the revenue stays "in house" (disregarding the argument about how many RJ's is too many with their higher CASM)

Jim

 

[SoldWholeSale]

GECAS only provides a portion of the financing for MAA. At least 50% of the ERJ-170's are financed in house through Embraer.

 

[Air conditioned]

So, back to Light Years' original topic "What's the Point?" that brings me to ask...is there a point to accepting a recall at MAA? Will they continue with classes in the near future or has everything been put on hold? Aren't there supposed to be two classes finishing up in May? Will that be it with this LOA 91 thing lurking?

My, my, what a tangled web we weave.

 

[ktflyhome]

Yea, Airconditioned, just one more friggin mess.

 

[foreright]

BoeginBoy: I was just about to ask, "Where is JIM"? Please explaine this LOA91 to me, so that my pea brain can understand it. Thanks, Kt :huh:

:down: OUTSOURCE OUTSOURCE OUTSOURCE..... so the 3500 pilots at mainline can be by subsidized by thier jr brothers. Dont believe anything else you hear because its a lie.

 

[Dizel8]

I am sure JO at Mesa is chomping at the bits, getting ready to add the E-170.

 

[foreright]

I am sure JO at Mesa is chomping at the bits, getting ready to add the E-170.

the mesa family tree

metro....B1900....Emb120....Dash8 ....emb145....crj50....crj70...emb170....emb190...B737...........WTF over!