Management Layoffs

wts54

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Sep 16, 2002
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United Airlines Cuts 1,700 Jobs
Friday January 3, 8:58 pm ET
By Dave Carpenter, AP Business Writer
United Airlines Announces the Company Is Laying Off Nearly
1,700 White-Collar, Ticketing Employees
CHICAGO (AP) -- United Airlines announced Friday that it is laying off nearly 1,700
white-collar and ticketing employees, or about 2 percent of its work force, and shutting
down its U.S. ticket offices as part of cost-cutting in bankruptcy.
The airline said the furloughs, to
take effect this month, will help it
meet the strict requirements of its
Chapter 11 financing. It has until
Feb. 15 to cut costs significantly or
it could lose the remainder of the
$1.5 billion in interim financing.
United also said it decided to close
down its remaining 32 city ticket
offices -- those outside of airports
-- based on customers'' increasing
shift to buying tickets online or
calling United''s reservation number.
The bulk of the latest layoffs
involve nearly 1,500 management
and salaried employees whose
nonunion jobs will be cut by Jan. 19 as part of United''s organizational redesign, the Elk
Grove Village, Ill.-based airline said.
These changes are part of the process of creating a new business that is competitive,
customer-focused and sustainable, said Sara Fields, senior vice president.
The ticket office closings, effective Jan. 28, will result in the loss of an additional 188
jobs. Those employees are represented by the Machinists'' union.
United spokesman Jeff Green put the total number of jobs being cut at about 1,700.
The airline, which employed about 100,000 people before the 2001 terrorist attacks,
currently has about 83,000 on its payroll.
No dollar figure was given for the amount that will be saved by the moves.
United had warned its employees earlier this week that significant layoffs can be
expected as it proceeds with the bankruptcy process, which began Dec. 9. The carrier
says it must reduce wages by $2.4 billion a year through 2008.
While trying to negotiate steep pay cuts, United is seeking to impose emergency,
temporary wage reductions. Four of its five unions are voting on whether to ratify the
cuts, but the machinists have objected.
Eliminating ticket offices reflects a growing tendency toward online purchasing -- one of
many factors which have caused United to be unprofitable for the past 2 1/2 years. The
company is expected to report an annual net loss exceeding $2 billion for 2002 for a
second straight year.
While the toll-free reservations line will remain in operation, United said the call volume
has dropped by 25 percent from a year ago. United is closing three of its 12 telephone
reservations centers on Saturday -- in San Francisco, Long Beach and Indianapolis.
Those moves, announced in October, will result in 686 layoffs.
Tickets also can still be purchased at United''s airport counters.
Shares in United parent company UAL Corp. fell 7 cents to close at $1.30 on the New
York Stock Exchange.
 

Tango-Bravo

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Aug 29, 2002
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Perhaps the meaningful reduction in management staff will persuade more of the people who are actually essential to making the airline work "come on board" to go along with what it will take to "re-invent" UA as a viable airline.

With all due respect, any thoughtful person who works for a "full-service" major airline (as yours truly does) cannot miss the obvious fact that management ranks are bloated with self-serving, self-perpetuating, non-productive opportunists without whom the resepective airlines' overall performance and bottom lines would show marked improvement. A good move in the right direction by UA.
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/3/2003 9:16:22 PM Tango-Bravo wrote:

With all due respect, any thoughtful person who works for a "full-service" major airline (as yours truly does) cannot miss the obvious fact that management ranks are bloated with self-serving, self-perpetuating, non-productive opportunists without whom the resepective airlines' overall performance and bottom lines would show marked improvement.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Hmmm...

With all due respect, any thoughtful person who works for a "full-service" major airline (as yours truly also does) cannot miss the obvious fact that union ranks are also bloated with self-serving, self-perpetuating, non-productive opportunists without whom the resepective airlines' overall performance and bottom lines would also show marked improvement.

Featherbedding runs rampant on both sides of the fence. Little things like only mechanics doing pushbacks at the hubs, the HNL crew base, and any number of other tidbits that you can find in the fine print of the IAM, ALPA, and AFA contracts which do nothing more than make sure that as many people as possible are kept on payroll, whether they're productive or not.

But then again, I'm a self-serving non-productive opportunist.
 

ual06

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Aug 30, 2002
331
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eolesen wrote:

" Featherbedding runs rampant on both sides of the fence. Little things like only mechanics
do pushbacks at the hubs, the HNL crew base, and any number of other tidbits that you can
find in the fine print of the IAM, ALPA, and AFA contracts which do nothing more than make sure that as many people as possible are kept on payroll, whether they're productive or not.

But then again, I'm a self-serving non-productive opportunist. "



Well said eolesen - except for your last sentence.
 

thedog

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Dec 27, 2002
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[STRONG][EM]eolesen[BR][BR]The last time someone spoke that much truth in such a small amount of space those in denial had a bad case of TMJ after their jaws dropped and medical help was needed.[/EM][/STRONG]
 

flyhigh

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Jan 4, 2003
657
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Thank god for the presence of eolsen. It amazes me how so many people either forget, don't realize, or don't care that when they say management, companies are also talking about low level analysts who make MUCH less than they do, work longer (with no OT pay), and are tasked with the job of making the company profitable. As an individual, has a mgr ever came to a mechanic, a pilot, a flight attendant, a ramp clerk, or agent and said that this flight's poor (financial) performance is your fault? I doubt it. I'm not talking about them saying your contract, I'm saying you [insert name] have been the reason for the failure of this flight.

In reality, it takes the scheduling analyst at HDQ to make the airline work as much as it does the mechanic, pilot, and flight attendant. For if it were up to those three groups, airlines would only fly 747's to Bloomington/Normal 12 times a day from O'Hare. It takes a sales force (also part of mgmt) to find demand for a route, a planning analyst to make the decision of how to fly the route (yes/no, what plane makes money on it, how many times a day), a scheduler to fit those flights into the hub at the right times, a pricing person to keep the company competitive, and an RM'er to generate the best RASM possible. I think if most people on these boards who've never seen, let alone taken the time to understand, the people and groups these areas are comprised of actually had a clearer understanding of how an airline works outside of the direct operation, there would be a better understanding between many groups.
 
OP
W

wts54

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Sep 16, 2002
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United Chicago

Most of the union work force at United currently (keyword: currently) enjoys industry leading contract.

Only senior management makes comparable wages in the business world. Lower and middle management are paid much, much less that you could get at another non-airline business.

So supervisors at walmart make more than 80,000.00 per year? Line maintenance supervisors make 10% more than the mechanics at UAL.So that
means 80,000.00 for lower level front line supervisors in other business I doubt that.
 
OP
W

wts54

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Sep 16, 2002
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I doubt they could do as well seeing how well they
have done at UAL.The truth is this company has feather bedding
at all levels and inflated egos and salaries to match.Small
offices where lower paid hourly workers could do all the work
with one supervisor has 5 on duty plus a shift manager to supervise
5 other hourly workers.This maybe the case in many places at UAL.
People have said UAL is still very top heavy starting with front line
supervisors on up.If the company needs to pay a supervisor 50,000
per year to sit at a computer to MADGAT airplanes to different gates
the IAM and others arent the only problems here,but not working
here you wouldnt have first hand knowledge of any of that.If you
arent needed by the corp.then you need to be laid off or taken down
to an hourly worker or laid off.Why should other employees at alpa,iam
and others pay for the inflated salaries and feather bedding by management?
If they can do better then let them leave.I dont know how many were laid
off after 911 but I work at LAX and I dont see much difference in management
staffing.Those people are probably a smaller group than UAL's lower level front line supervisors and management.
 

UnitedChicago

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Something to think about.

Most of the union work force at United currently (keyword: currently) enjoys industry leading contract.

Only senior management makes comparable wages in the business world. Lower and middle management are paid much, much less that you could get at another non-airline business.

So if you're angry with "management" pay - I suggest you direct that to only the top 40 management.
 

UnitedChicago

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Aug 27, 2002
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On 1/4/2003 11:23:17 AM wts54 wrote:

United Chicago

So supervisors at walmart make more than 80,000.00 per year? Line maintenance supervisors make 10% more than the mechanics at UAL.So that
means 80,000.00 for lower level front line supervisors in other business I doubt taht.


wts54: You're talking apples to oranages. I am referring to non-union lower and middle management at WHQ. For example: associate, manager, director level positions in say marketing, planning, and finance.

These groups make much much less at United than they COULD earn at companies like IBM, Ford, GE, etc.

Wal-Mart doesn't even apply here.
 

Tango-Bravo

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[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/3/2003 10:25:21 PM eolesen wrote:

[blockquote]

----------------

On 1/3/2003 9:16:22 PM Tango-Bravo wrote:


With all due respect, any thoughtful person who works for a "full-service" major airline (as yours truly does) cannot miss the obvious fact that management ranks are bloated with self-serving, self-perpetuating, non-productive opportunists without whom the resepective airlines' overall performance and bottom lines would show marked improvement.

----------------

[/blockquote]


Hmmm...


With all due respect, any thoughtful person who works for a "full-service" major airline (as yours truly also does) cannot miss the obvious fact that union ranks are also bloated with self-serving, self-perpetuating, non-productive opportunists without whom the resepective airlines' overall performance and bottom lines would also show marked improvement.


Featherbedding runs rampant on both sides of the fence. Little things like only mechanics doing pushbacks at the hubs, the HNL crew base, and any number of other tidbits that you can find in the fine print of the IAM, ALPA, and AFA contracts which do nothing more than make sure that as many people as possible are kept on payroll, whether they're productive or not.


But then again, I'm a self-serving non-productive opportunist.
----------------
[/blockquote]


Correctomundo about what also happens "on the other side of the fence." The point of my post is that it seems like labor has been singled out to bear the pain for the consequences of irresponsible decisions made with impunity by self-serving managers.

It's all about what goes around comes around. Labor sees the travesty of their being made the scapegoat for management follies and reciprocates in its own ways. Moreover, labor has a way of patterning its behavior after the example of management; can't say I have ever seen it work the other way around. That is precisely why "underpaid" labor at Southwest and jetBlue are on the same page with management--and are the industry's most productive employees; like management, like labor.

In a just world, the managers whose jobs are axed would be the self-serving, self-perpetuating, non-productive opportunists. However, since common sense and sound judgment remain conspicuously absent at the upper levels of UA management, it will probably be mostly the managers whose services are essential -- and profitable -- to the airline, who truly care about their colleagues and and their airline (regardless of whether it advances their career) who will be the first to go.
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/4/2003 2:07:54 PM Tango-Bravo wrote:

The point of my post is that it seems like labor has been singled out to bear the pain for the consequences of irresponsible decisions made with impunity by self-serving managers.

----------------
[/blockquote]

Labor isn't being singled out. They're just making a lot more noise than management.

Management's pay was simply cut with little to no fanfare in the paycheck just before Christmas.
 
Dec 5, 2002
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/4/2003 8:48:36 PM eolesen wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/4/2003 2:07:54 PM Tango-Bravo wrote:

The point of my post is that it seems like labor has been singled out to bear the pain for the consequences of irresponsible decisions made with impunity by self-serving managers.

----------------
[/blockquote]

Labor isn't being singled out. They're just making a lot more noise than management.

Management's pay was simply cut with little to no fanfare in the paycheck just before Christmas.
----------------
[/blockquote]

To extended eolesen's comment. It looks like debt holders already took a paycut when they stopped getting interest payments. Leasors also took a hit when Ch11 was filed. As for fuel, good luck...you pay market rates or you don't get it. We could continue through the cost structure and the argument would remain the same, labor isn't being singled out. It's just the only one complaining on a bulletin board and in the press.
 

RV4

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/4/2003 8:48:36 PM eolesen wrote:

Management's pay was simply cut with little to no fanfare in the paycheck just before Christmas.
----------------
[/blockquote]

eolesen,

This not true of AA management in Tulsa (paycut). In fact, there is a copy of an epays stub floating around the AA Tulsa Base that shows a $3500 bonus was accidently place into a mechanics account on our Dec. 13th pay period. Sources are saying the intended management receipient and the mechanic have the same last name and a big fat error took place.

This has made any TWU vote on the request to give up the march 3% raise a waste of time and effort.
 
Dave, nobody has been asked for a pay cut at AA. Pay freezes, yes. I've certainly taken one without being asked if I cared about it or not...

And to prove that, I will be more than willing to show you paystubs which show the same base pay amount for January 2001, January 2002, and January 2003...

Second, as I responded on the AA forum, anyone with basic html knowledge can create a dummy ePays stub...

Keep the red herrings coming, though. I have a very large bucket of sand your head will probably fit into, and will be more than happy to drive it up to your neck of the prairie, if you're interested...
 

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