Midway [MDW] Now to stay open

Tim Nelson

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Jan 5, 2003
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Not that it matters to many on this board since it isn''t a mainline station but my understanding is that since ATA announced on Monday they would start flying MDW to PIT, that US AIRWAYS reversed its decision on closing MDW, after announcing it would be closed just last week. I don''t have this confirmed but I have reason to think it is true.

At any rate, if this is true, then I like the competitive response of not tolerating ATA''s move into PIT. PIT, PHL and CLT should stay most sacred ground.
 

X-U

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Feb 1, 2003
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Well I for one am tired of seeing US Airways retreat every time competition rears it''s ugly head. MDW should stay open and so should BWI. Now that the company has a couple of bucks they need to get up off the canvas and come out swinging. My home airport ACY is filthy with freakin ComAir jungle jets while US throw 3 flights on Beech 1900''s to PHL. That airport should be OWNED by US to the point where only Spirit and US even bother to fly to it. Same for ATA in PIT and CLT, stay on''em and don''t let''em breath. If I am running US and they come into CLT I start seasonal service to St Pete. I dust off those 757''s take out first and load a high density low yeild flight against there 737-800''s to anyplace they go in FL. same for PHL-MDW, an airline comes to PHL CLT PIT they pay a prce. you have got to make then bleed cash for the right to win our base. They didn''t need Metro Jet they need a marketing department and operations working hand in hand to make money with the equipment on the property TODAY stop letting the competition run over US. at leaset make them knock you out, don''t quit on your stool.

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Bob,

Here''s a tidbit from a Feb.4, 2003 Yahoo finance story on ATA:
"Year-to-Date Operating Results:

Compared with 2001, system-wide RPMs increased 6.1 percent to 12.38 billion, and ASMs increased 8.7 percent to 17.60 billion for the twelve months of 2002. For ATA Holdings Corp., total RASM decreased 7.9 percent to 7.26 cents. Mainline CASM was 7.58 cents. CASM excluding special items noted in the table on page one was 7.07 cents, a decrease of 3.2 percent. "

ATA Cost per Available Seat Mile is 7.58 cents. USA''s is 10.2, projected to 9.9 in 2004. ATA will win with lower fares. ATA gets the Joe Six-pack traveler whose only concern is price, not FF miles, not a possible upgrade to first class. They will also get the business traveler whose company demands that the travel budget must be slashed, take the flight with the lowest fare. USA will get the travelers who are willing to pay a liitle more for FF miles, better service. But that is a dwindling customer base and it won''t be enough to cover costs.
 

trvlr64

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Aug 20, 2002
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On 4/1/2003 9:22:24 PM Tim Nelson wrote:

Not that it matters to many on this board since it isn''t a mainline station but my understanding is that since ATA announced on Monday they would start flying MDW to PIT, that US AIRWAYS reversed its decision on closing MDW, after announcing it would be closed just last week. I don''t have this confirmed but I have reason to think it is true.


At any rate, if this is true, then I like the competitive response of not tolerating ATA''s move into PIT. PIT, PHL and CLT should stay most sacred ground.

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Well I''d expect to see more new airlines flying out of PIT now that Dave has pizzed off Roddey. ACAA will renew the leases at a lower price, take away some gates and probably invite competitors in. It''s going to be an interesting next few months here the the burgh. Somehow I foresee a bigger American Airline presence here. I wonder if Roddey is talking with them. He hinted at talking with someone already on the news.
 

wings396

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Aug 20, 2002
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How many times have we been in and out of MDW already???They may as well keep a U-Haul on standby.....
 

DLFlyer31

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
444
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On 4/1/2003 9:40:31 PM PineyBob wrote:

Well I for one am tired of seeing US Airways retreat every time competition rears it''s ugly head. MDW should stay open and so should BWI. Now that the company has a couple of bucks they need to get up off the canvas and come out swinging. My home airport ACY is filthy with freakin ComAir jungle jets while US throw 3 flights on Beech 1900''s to PHL. That airport should be OWNED by US to the point where only Spirit and US even bother to fly to it. Same for ATA in PIT and CLT, stay on''em and don''t let''em breath. If I am running US and they come into CLT I start seasonal service to St Pete. I dust off those 757''s take out first and load a high density low yeild flight against there 737-800''s to anyplace they go in FL. same for PHL-MDW, an airline comes to PHL CLT PIT they pay a prce. you have got to make then bleed cash for the right to win our base. They didn''t need Metro Jet they need a marketing department and operations working hand in hand to make money with the equipment on the property TODAY stop letting the competition run over US. at leaset make them knock you out, don''t quit on your stool.

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As X-U pointed out, the only one who will bleed in this case is USAirways. U''s cost structure is still too high too compete with the likes of ATA. ATA has reached a critical mass where US''s bullying just won''t work anymore. US will have to find another way to compete.

Sure US can flood ATA with low-fares, but US can''t afford to bleed on these routes anymore. The "couple of bucks" US has won''t last long and they can''t afford to go BK again.
 

algflyr

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Aug 21, 2002
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I don''t think ComAir operates any jungle jets. I believe they are all CRJ''s. Maybe it''s CHQ that operates the jungle jet in the Delta system. :)
 

trvlr64

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On 4/2/2003 8:01:56 AM DCAflyer wrote:

trvlr64 said:


Well I''d expect to see more new airlines flying out of PIT now that Dave has pizzed off Roddey. ACAA will renew the leases at a lower price, take away some gates and probably invite competitors in. It''s going to be an interesting next few months here the the burgh. Somehow I foresee a bigger American Airline presence here. I wonder if Roddey is talking with them. He hinted at talking with someone already on the news.



DCAflyer replies:


Funny thing about our competition... they tend to fly where people want to go. PIT, therefore, isn''t in the running to be mega-ops for any (other) airline. Don''t get me wrong, I love PIT. But the only reason the current level of air traffic exists is because it is a U hub. Unfortunately, it is an underperforming hub in terms of revenue to the company. In other words, it costs us more money to operate out of PIT than we make. A big reason the company is in the mess it is is because of where we concentrated our operations (PIT, DAY, CLT). This is compounded by the fact that two of our hubs are a couple of hundred miles from each other. If we get a chance to move substantial portions of our operations to vibrant localities (DEN, STL, LAX... all opportunities which may be presented in the coming months) and quit trying to get people to spend a thousand dollars to fly on a prop where they can just as quickly drive, we will be much better off. I don''t see a lot of OAL''s lining up to take over PIT.

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I don''t expect any other airline to make PIT a hub. I simply want more service and options like most other airports have. PIT simply doesn''t have enough good competition here because the old country commissioners were shortsighted and only believed in USAirways. That''s all.
 

DCAflyer

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Aug 27, 2002
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trvlr64 said:

Well I'd expect to see more new airlines flying out of PIT now that Dave has pizzed off Roddey. ACAA will renew the leases at a lower price, take away some gates and probably invite competitors in. It's going to be an interesting next few months here the the burgh. Somehow I foresee a bigger American Airline presence here. I wonder if Roddey is talking with them. He hinted at talking with someone already on the news.


DCAflyer replies:

Funny thing about our competition... they tend to fly where people want to go. PIT, therefore, isn't in the running to be mega-ops for any (other) airline. Don't get me wrong, I love PIT. But the only reason the current level of air traffic exists is because it is a U hub. Unfortunately, it is an underperforming hub in terms of revenue to the company. In other words, it costs us more money to operate out of PIT than we make. A big reason the company is in the mess it is is because of where we concentrated our operations (PIT, DAY, CLT). This is compounded by the fact that two of our hubs are a couple of hundred miles from each other. If we get a chance to move substantial portions of our operations to vibrant localities (DEN, STL, LAX... all opportunities which may be presented in the coming months) and quit trying to get people to spend a thousand dollars to fly on a prop where they can just as quickly drive, we will be much better off. I don't see a lot of OAL's lining up to take over PIT.
 

RowUnderDCA

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Oct 6, 2002
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On 4/2/2003 8:01:56 AM DCAflyer wrote:

Funny thing about our competition... they tend to fly where people want to go. PIT, therefore, isn''t in the running to be mega-ops for any (other) airline. Don''t get me wrong, I love PIT. But the only reason the current level of air traffic exists is because it is a U hub. Unfortunately, it is an underperforming hub in terms of revenue to the company. In other words, it costs us more money to operate out of PIT than we make. A big reason the company is in the mess it is is because of where we concentrated our operations (PIT, DAY, CLT). This is compounded by the fact that two of our hubs are a couple of hundred miles from each other. If we get a chance to move substantial portions of our operations to vibrant localities (DEN, STL, LAX... all opportunities which may be presented in the coming months) and quit trying to get people to spend a thousand dollars to fly on a prop where they can just as quickly drive, we will be much better off. I don''t see a lot of OAL''s lining up to take over PIT.

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This is absolutely true. PIT and PHL were all about maintaining a fare premium that just won''t work anymore. US has met it''s ''tipping point.'' Furthermore, I think that the industry is more cost focused now. Running more efficient hubs in stronger O & D markets and point-to-point service, including with small jets, while increasing system connectivity with code shares (Star Alliance hubs in ORD and Toronto (YYZ?)) provides benefits which exceed hanging on to PIT''s smallish FF base. I''m not an expert on American economic geography, but Pittsburgh always seemed to be overblown.

Now, let''s hope that ACAA doesn''t collapse and U employees have minimal disruption to their lives. Good luck to all.
 

funguy2

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Aug 20, 2002
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On 4/2/2003 9:00:20 AM trvlr64 wrote:

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On 4/2/2003 8:01:56 AM DCAflyer wrote:

trvlr64 said:


Well I''d expect to see more new airlines flying out of PIT now that Dave has pizzed off Roddey. ACAA will renew the leases at a lower price, take away some gates and probably invite competitors in. It''s going to be an interesting next few months here the the burgh. Somehow I foresee a bigger American Airline presence here. I wonder if Roddey is talking with them. He hinted at talking with someone already on the news.



DCAflyer replies:


Funny thing about our competition... they tend to fly where people want to go. PIT, therefore, isn''t in the running to be mega-ops for any (other) airline. Don''t get me wrong, I love PIT. But the only reason the current level of air traffic exists is because it is a U hub. Unfortunately, it is an underperforming hub in terms of revenue to the company. In other words, it costs us more money to operate out of PIT than we make. A big reason the company is in the mess it is is because of where we concentrated our operations (PIT, DAY, CLT). This is compounded by the fact that two of our hubs are a couple of hundred miles from each other. If we get a chance to move substantial portions of our operations to vibrant localities (DEN, STL, LAX... all opportunities which may be presented in the coming months) and quit trying to get people to spend a thousand dollars to fly on a prop where they can just as quickly drive, we will be much better off. I don''t see a lot of OAL''s lining up to take over PIT.

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I don''t expect any other airline to make PIT a hub. I simply want more service and options like most other airports have. PIT simply doesn''t have enough good competition here because the old country commissioners were shortsighted and only believed in USAirways. That''s all.

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While I understand your desire, so long as U has a hub at PIT, substantial new service, particularly point-to-point, is extremely unlikely. PIT has quite a history of non-support for new-entrants. PIT residents love when new entrants come in because U matches, and everyone flies U at a lower price while collecting miles. Examples through time include: JetTrain, Nations Air, AirTran (and/or ValuJet, to MDW,PHL,BOS), Vanguard (to MDW). The airlines that have held on at PIT did so on the basis of the strength of their hub... like Midway (original MDW, version 2 to RDU), AirTran (to ATL). Hopefully, for the sake of competitive balance, new entrants ATA and America West can be successful at PIT on the basis of their hubs. Other airports that suffer from this problem are MSP and CVG. The only airline that I can imagine being sucessful at running point-to-point against U at PIT would be LUV. And they don''t seem to be busting down the door at PIT. If LUV wanted to be in PIT, I would guess that they would already be there, given all the empty gates.
 

trvlr64

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I'll simply state it this way. All I want and need, as does any weekly/daily business flyer out of PIT, is more service and frequency. Since US reduced some of it's flights and times into and out of PIT, I've had to readjust my schedule too. I am tired of getting home after 8pm on a Friday night.

I'm not asking another airline to make PIT it's hub, that would be ridiculous. But it would be nice if we had more choices. And that's what it's all about. Choices.

As for US running off it's competition, yes that is very true. But you can also blame the ACAA for this. They do nothing to attract new business to this airport. And once those new airlines are here, there is no BIG promotion to keep attracting PAX to these new airlines. Ask me how often I have seen an ad for AWA since they entered PIT?? A big fat NONE!! If it wasn't for me informing my neighbors and other people I meet, they wouldn't even know that AWA was even here. (I'm a big airline junky because of my dad, so I take an interest in the airlines)

It's interesting to walk through B concourse and A concourse at any given time during the day. A is now all express and B is mainline. B still has the hussle and bussle of 2 years ago. But walk over to A and you see what the future has instore. Dead quiet. Some businesses have even closed.

Oh well, we'll see what Roddey and the ACAA are going to do. Like I said before, it's going to be fun to watch the news here in the burgh now.