More DL Connection ERJs

DLFlyer31

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
444
0
In Leo's best Montgomery Burn's imitation, "Excellllennnt....more RJ's for the armada and one less pesky little hub to compete with."
 

Cosmo

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
840
0
With the closing of America West''s CMH hub, Chautauqua is moving 12 ERJ-145s into its DL Connection operation. So by the end of 2003, Chautauqua will have 34 ERJs flying in DL colors. No indication of specific routes yet, but apparently there will be more CMH flying. Here''s the [A href=http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030210/102437_1.html]press release[/A].
 

Tim47SIP

Member
Aug 23, 2002
22
0
And when it is time to get rid of, or reduce the number of RJ's, the contract carriers will be the first to go. I hope those guys have plans.
 
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DLFlyer31

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
444
0
[blockquote]
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On 2/12/2003 1:39:23 AM Tim47SIP wrote:

And when it is time to get rid of, or reduce the number of RJ's, the contract carriers will be the first to go.
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[/blockquote]

That's always a risk you take when you are one of the contract carriers.

My question is, what if the contract carriers are cheaper than the wholly-owned's? For example, Chautauqua can do the Florida flying for cheaper than Comair, so why would DL want to dump the cheaper contract carrier? Why not just dump the leased Comair RJ's?

Of course, I don't forsee DL dumping any RJ's in the near term. The long-term is a different story.
 

RJStud

Member
Aug 20, 2002
50
0
DL31,

DAL will always make a greater profit when ASA and Comair do the flying because they do not have to share the profits with Chit, Skywest, ACA, etc.

I know that a captain at Chit makes less money than an FO at ASA or Comair. If this is a better deal for DCI, then why isn't Chit doing all of the DCI flying? Why not liqidate ASA and Comair and give it all to Mesa?

Better yet, start a new alter-ego (non-union) WO carrier at DCI and pay them $10.00 per hour with no benefits. Then slowly transfer all ASA and Comair aircraft to the new WO. Hire furloughed ALPA pilots to fly at the new WO.
 
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DLFlyer31

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
444
0
[blockquote]
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On 2/12/2003 8:37:51 AM RJStud wrote:

DL31,

DAL will always make a greater profit when ASA and Comair do the flying because they do not have to share the profits with Chit, Skywest, ACA, etc.

I know that a captain at Chit makes less money than an FO at ASA or Comair. If this is a better deal for DCI, then why isn't Chit doing all of the DCI flying? Why not liqidate ASA and Comair and give it all to Mesa?

Better yet, start a new alter-ego (non-union) WO carrier at DCI and pay them $10.00 per hour with no benefits. Then slowly transfer all ASA and Comair aircraft to the new WO. Hire furloughed ALPA pilots to fly at the new WO.
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[/blockquote]

I understand your allusion to the newly flying Freedom Air and I can understand your disapproval.

I don't think DAL would do anything that extreme. Then again, anything seems to be possible in today's environment. It would be interesting to see how profitable ASA/Comair are for DL in comparison with SKYW/ACA/CHQ.


Just as a bit of good news, DL rescinded the 20 pilot furloughs scheduled for March. Granted that's not a lot in comparsion with the 1100+ already on furlough, but it's a small step in the right direction.
 

Chicken Taco

Member
Aug 29, 2002
50
0
[blockquote]
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On 2/12/2003 8:37:51 AM RJStud wrote: DAL will always make a greater profit when ASA and Comair do the flying because they do not have to share the profits with Chit, Skywest, ACA, etc. I know that a captain at Chit makes less money than an FO at ASA or Comair. If this is a better deal for DCI, then why isn't Chit doing all of the DCI flying?
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[/blockquote]

OK, let's clear these up one at a time:
First, as for profit sharing, DL stands to make a HUGE profit from CHQ, ACA, and SkyWest flying if the loads are managed well. Our flying is provided on a fee-per-departure basis, meaning that we're paid per completed flight, not per pax. The operating carrier is guaranteed a certain amount per leg, which always ensures us a reasonable, but not huge profit. If we have full planes and the seats are sold for a reasonable cost, then DL makes a killing, as everything over our set fee is DL's profit. If the plane is empty DL takes a bath. So as long as traffic is decent, life it grand for all involved.

Second, pilot pay. CHQ is currently in negotiations, and for comparison purposes we're a contract behind Comair. Still, our lowest paid captain on year 3 (we have none more junior than that) is making around $48.00. Please show me where any Comair FO is making more than that. Most of our CA's are making $60-$70. This is far too low, but is certainly more than any regional FO anywhere.

Third, please stop referring to us as Chit. A chit is a small square of fabric. We are an airline. I don't refer to Comair as Coma, or to ASA as Atla, or anything else like that. Please use CHQ, or if you feel the need to simply shorten, then at least Cha or Chat, as there is no "i" anywhere in "Chautauqua". Thanks.. ..CT
 

oops

Newbie
Feb 13, 2003
3
0
Chicken Taco, Chit is not meant as a cutesy abbreviation for Chautauqua. It's a reference to #2. Kinda like the "poopwater" nickname I've also seen. I know, It took me a while to figure it out.
 

RJStud

Member
Aug 20, 2002
50
0
Chicken Chit,

If you think your fee for departure will survive in its present form, you are sadly mistaken. Why will DAL pay more for the same service than U or UA? You are a temporary stop-gap until ASA and Comair get more RJs, then you will be gone. You are also here to keep ASA and Comair employees from getting better pay and benefits (and we really don't like that).

Management, "Oh, you want more money, Chit will do it for a lot less, so pack sand!" ASA and Comair response, "Yea, those Chit people do work cheep, how much sand would you like us to pack, sir?"
 

Cart Pusher

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
146
0
It's so hypocrtitical for any of you ASA or Comair pilots to bad mouth a Chautauqua pilot because you think they are standing in your way of making more money and advancing in your careers. Now you know how the mainline pilots at other carriers feel about you regional pilots.

Just for the record, I don't stand on either side of the argument, I just find it extremely hypocritical of people like RJ Stud to tell a CHQ pilot that they are standing in their way while they continue to work for a company that continues to eat away at mainline flying, thus sending mainline pilots to the street.
 

RJStud

Member
Aug 20, 2002
50
0
Why don't you stick to passing out water and showing people how to fasten their seatbelt. You do not have a dog in this fight honey.
 

Cart Pusher

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
146
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Hey Stud -

Just for the record, I'm not your honey - I've got a wife and two kids (your age most likely) and they are about all I can handle in the "honey" department.

Secondly - you haven't addressed my point, which is very valid. Your come back was only an attempt at trying to make me feel inferior to you. You may be sitting in the front of the plane but I've been in the back of the plane since you were a little boy, I'm sure, and I'm pretty keen as to what's going on in the industry. In fact, I'm sure some of the mainline pilots that are here, maybe even one or two that are furloughed, would like to hear your justification for halting their opportunities for advancement. So let's hear it - why is it any different for you to continue flying routes that are eating away at mainline routes than for a CHQ pilot to fly routes that you think you should be flying???????? Can you answer that, intelligently, without simply resorting to insults?
 

Vikedog64

Senior
Jan 29, 2003
256
0
[blockquote]
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On 2/13/2003 6:32:23 PM RJStud wrote:

Why don't you stick to passing out water and showing people how to fasten their seatbelt. You do not have a dog in this fight honey.
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[/blockquote]
Why don't you quit talking like it's hard to fly a airplane? Geez...
 
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DLFlyer31

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
444
0
[blockquote]
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On 2/13/2003 5:09:50 PM RJStud wrote:

Chicken Chit,

If you think your fee for departure will survive in its present form, you are sadly mistaken. Why will DAL pay more for the same service than U or UA? You are a temporary stop-gap until ASA and Comair get more RJs, then you will be gone. You are also here to keep ASA and Comair employees from getting better pay and benefits (and we really don't like that).
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[/blockquote]

You seem to be contradicting yourself. At one moment, you say that DL will dump the contract carriers as soon as Comair/ASA get more planes. Your reasoning is that DL realizes more profits from the wholly owneds. However, in the next instant, you say the contract carriers keep the wholly-owned's in-line by keeping pay/benefits down. This would seem to imply that DL would want to keep the contract carriers in order to keep the wholly owneds from acting up.

I have a feeling that DL will always keep a certain percentage of flying with the contract carriers. Sure, ASA/Comair will see the bulk of the growth, but DL will always want to have a contract carrier to keep you guys on your toes.

Of course, the with recent ruling from the furlough arbitration it will be real interesting to see how DL handles future growth. Too much growth on the Connection side could trigger recalls on the mainline side something DL really doesn't want right now.