More Fare Nonsense
- Thread starter Art at ISP
- Start date
PITbull
Veteran
Barbell
Senior
- Nov 16, 2005
- 335
- 0
Fares are based on market demand, neither distance nor connectability.
Shuttle fares are what they are because the travelers in those markets are, primarily, interested in the convenience of the schedule and the service and are willing to pay that fare for it. Unfortunately Art was caught between a rock and a hard place of loyalty to US and a much lower fare on B6. B6 charges a lower fare because they can't justify the higher one. US charges the higher fare because they can justify it, and people pay it.
And to CluebyFour's point about ontime between JFK and LGA, that's not the point I was making, albeit it's a good one. B6 has consistently ranked at the bottom of OTP industry wide, while US has ranked consistently near the top. The point is that a US Shuttle flight has a much greater probability of operating on schedule than either DL, B6, or AA based on overall reliability.
Jimntx makes the best point of all, though, and that applies to all markets, not just Shuttle. We can't get too comfortable in the fact that sometimes people fly a legacy instead of WN. It should be that our complete package of service is enough to put the thought of flying WN out of the customer's mind. We have a long way to go in that respect.
Shuttle fares are what they are because the travelers in those markets are, primarily, interested in the convenience of the schedule and the service and are willing to pay that fare for it. Unfortunately Art was caught between a rock and a hard place of loyalty to US and a much lower fare on B6. B6 charges a lower fare because they can't justify the higher one. US charges the higher fare because they can justify it, and people pay it.
And to CluebyFour's point about ontime between JFK and LGA, that's not the point I was making, albeit it's a good one. B6 has consistently ranked at the bottom of OTP industry wide, while US has ranked consistently near the top. The point is that a US Shuttle flight has a much greater probability of operating on schedule than either DL, B6, or AA based on overall reliability.
Jimntx makes the best point of all, though, and that applies to all markets, not just Shuttle. We can't get too comfortable in the fact that sometimes people fly a legacy instead of WN. It should be that our complete package of service is enough to put the thought of flying WN out of the customer's mind. We have a long way to go in that respect.
- Thread Starter
- #35
Barbell,
While you make some points, the one point you miss is that the number of people willing to pay those exhorbitant fares is declining steadily-they are driving, taking the train, or using other airlines (in my case I would have driven, except for scheduling requirements). Now if the fares were REASONABLE (note not CHEAP), more of those folks would fly, and the AVERAGE fare paid would increase, thereby increasing revenue overall in the long run.
"Because there are people who will pay it" is just not an acceptable reason, and is part of the root cause of the whole problem.
Let me remind you that HP was profitable before with a simplified and RATIONAL fare schedule. To most people, there is no VALUE to a $600 shuttle fare--and the number of those to whom there is value is shrinking faster than you think.
JS
Veteran
I hope you slept with one eye open......
Luckily, not necessary.
Huh? I'm not.
I wouldn't have paid the alimony either.
Did they feed you good (3 square), and did you have free cable?
No cable (who cares, I don't watch much TV anyway). Three bland meals a day. You know what's really sad? The jail employees are actually more humane than the TSA screeners. I kid you not. They don't yell instructions unless you yell at them, they don't make up rules on the fly, and they don't steal your belongings.
I wouldn't have paid the alimony except that even if I stayed there six months, I would still owe it, not to mention my nice job, apartment and financed car would be gone.
Back on topic -- PineyBob's example of CHS-CLT is one where I would like to point out that most people wouldn't fly that route today regardless of the fare. As PineyBob said, the time savings of flying short-haul is nonexistent. The TSA, and to a lesser extent the airlines, seem to think that everyone has hours to spare and is happy to throw away all kinds of random common household objects in the name of "security". Meanwhile, more and more people (including myself) are saying "f that" and driving distances that we used to fly. I'm not going to have mid-tier status on two airlines next year and the way things are going, I never will.
I still don't understand why Art wanted to fly instead of drive if he needed to be back on Long Island early the next morning. If I were him, I would have driven back late that night -- you get home even sooner than a 6 AM Shuttle flight the next morning. Heck, I've driven from Boston to upstate New York late in the evening. A cup of coffee and some CD's and I'm all set.
If true high-speed train service ever reaches the Northeast corridor, the airlines can kiss their Shuttle business goodbye.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
I guess it may have started with Doug's "rather be on-time @ LGA than late @ JFK" remarks when B6 announced they were starting CLT-JFK service, but I always find the reflexive "we're always better than the competition" attitude interesting.
No doubt that B6 went thru a rough patch with their on-time performance late last year and early this year. Apparently that's become a perpetual "fact", regardless of what the data show.
For July, B6 was on-time 72.3% of the time, US 72.1%.
For the 2nd qtr, B6 was on-time 78% of the time, US 77.9%.
How about specific airports - JFK and LGA.
July - B6 OTP @ JFK was 67.9%, US at LGA was 70.2%
June - B6 @ JFK was 68.1%, US @ LGA was 64.3%
May - B6 @ JFK 81.1%, US @ LGA 75.4%
Aprril - B6 @ JFK 76.5%, US @ LGA 78.9%
I'm still looking for that "consistantly ranked near the bottom" for B6, as well as "consistantly ranked near the top" for US......
Jim
I hope you slept with one eye open......
Yea , his BIG BROWN EYE !
Yea , his BIG BROWN EYE !
SORRY, JUST COULDNT RESIST NOW BACK ON TOPIC !
How do you figure that B6 manually reports their times? last time I checked they had ACARS just like US
Back on topic, I would not worry about B6 in the long run. They have no pricing power and cannot seem to price their product in a way to make any money. They have the lowest cost in the industry but they cannot charge enough to cover those lower costs. See link
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/ar...;Symbol=US:JBLU
Everyone loves low fares and jetblue loves to give people low fares. Jetblue would rather fly Art for $70 dollars than charge him $200 and be around 5 years from now. As B6 lowers its stage length its CASM will continue to rise further eroding the slim to non existent profit margins. Its just a matter of time unless they make fundamental and quick changes to their pricing practices.
Back on topic, I would not worry about B6 in the long run. They have no pricing power and cannot seem to price their product in a way to make any money. They have the lowest cost in the industry but they cannot charge enough to cover those lower costs. See link
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/ar...;Symbol=US:JBLU
Everyone loves low fares and jetblue loves to give people low fares. Jetblue would rather fly Art for $70 dollars than charge him $200 and be around 5 years from now. As B6 lowers its stage length its CASM will continue to rise further eroding the slim to non existent profit margins. Its just a matter of time unless they make fundamental and quick changes to their pricing practices.
Similar threads
