Nasty Rumors

TWAnr

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Aug 19, 2002
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On 4/28/2003 11:56:27 AM Flyboy4u wrote:


Mgmt at JFK/LGA is stating approximately 5100 Flight Attendants will be furloughed.

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I have heard and read all sort of rumors over the past few weeks. However, just do the math. The new work rules eliminate 2,391 flight attendant positions. Approximately 2,700 flight attendants are currently on overage leaves of absence. With the new contract, the attractiveness of OVLA is greatly diminished, especially due to the elimination of company paid health insurance. Many are expected to return to the line. Add the numbers up and you get close to the 5,100 figure. What is left out of the equation is the number of those who will retire or quit in lieu of returning to work.
 

Flyboy4u

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Oct 6, 2002
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There are some nasty rumors flying around right now. Mgmt at JFK/LGA is stating approximately 5100 Flight Attendants will be furloughed. Can anyone confirm or deny this rumor? Also, If this is the case, How can AA manage a route system with this many flight attendants gone? It doesn''tmake any sense but this is AA we are talking about.
 

medr

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Apr 15, 2003
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Have you heard... what is the timeline for these furloughs? ASAP? Over the course of several months? Company still undecided as to when?
 

Winglet

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Aug 20, 2002
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Just under 25% of the pilots will be furloughed. Maybe somebody knows what the nominal ratio of F/As to pilots is, but that may be an indicator. It may change a bit due to the difference between work rule givebacks.
 

FWAAA

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Jan 5, 2003
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On 4/28/2003 1:29:37 PM Winglet wrote:

Just under 25% of the pilots will be furloughed. Maybe somebody knows what the nominal ratio of F/As to pilots is, but that may be an indicator. It may change a bit due to the difference between work rule givebacks.

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There are approximately twice as many FAs as pilots (just over 26,000 FAs, about 13,500 pilots).
 

DCAview

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Aug 21, 2002
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(Warning: Elementary-level question coming.)

I hear a lot of talk about furloughs and layoffs. I don''t work in the industry, so I don''t quite understand the distinction between them. Can anyone explain what it is?

Is a furlough essentially a layoff with recall rights for a set time? If so, who or what determines how long that period lasts? Thanks.
 

WXGuesser

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Aug 20, 2002
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On 4/28/2003 4:11:05 PM DCAview wrote:

(Warning: Elementary-level question coming.)

I hear a lot of talk about furloughs and layoffs. I don''t work in the industry, so I don''t quite understand the distinction between them. Can anyone explain what it is?

Is a furlough essentially a layoff with recall rights for a set time? If so, who or what determines how long that period lasts? Thanks.

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People tend to use the terms interchangeably...

A furlough or layoff is being laid off from the airline. Furloughs are done in reverse seniority order (i.e. the last person hired is the first one furloughed). The union contract an employee is under determines 1) if they have recall rights (which most employees do after their probationary period) and 2) how long they have recall rights. Usually the term of recall rights is 5 or 10 years. What the recall rights are is that once a position becomes open (through someone''s retirement, expansion, etc.) the airline has to offer that position to the first person on the furlough list (I.e. the person with the most seniority on furlough). This is known as being "called back."

I hope that clears up any confusion.

TANSTAAFL
 

s80dude

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Aug 19, 2002
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Ed,
When my FSM came down to introduce herself (i.e. give me a grooming check) she said they were sending out 5,000 WARN letters. Those people are subject to furlough, but as has been the case, the actual furlough number is different.

Perhaps that is where the rumor is coming from.

P.S. I don't think the pilot furloughs are necessary linked to the FA furloughs this go round because the pilots have been sitting on an overage since January and their TA is overhauling their reserve system, meaning less reserves at each base, as well as other productivity issues.
 

kirkpatrick

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Aug 20, 2002
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On 4/28/2003 12:33:04 PM TWAnr wrote:


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I have heard and read all sort of rumors over the past few weeks.  However, just do the math.  The new work rules eliminate 2,391 flight attendant positions.  Approximately 2,700 flight attendants are currently on overage leaves of absence.  With the new contract, the attractiveness of  OVLA is greatly diminished, especially due to the elimination of company paid health insurance.  Many are expected to return to the line.  Add the numbers up and you get close to the 5,100 figure.  What is left out of the equation is the number of those who will retire or quit in lieu of returning to work.

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Not doubting your basic logic and reasoning here, but I''d like to play with those numbers a bit more. The 2391 is arrived at by adding up the headcount reduction of each individual give-back. I believe the actual figure when the whole package is considered is closer to 1850, which, coincidentally or not, just about equals the number of TWA FA''s left. 2700 people on OVL''s also sounds a bit high, and I think it includes those coming back on May 1. The furloughs effective Apr 30 already take those people into account.

It remains a mystery just how many on OVL''s will elect to continue under the new conditions, where there is no retirement credit, no medical coverage, no sick leave accrual and no vacation accrual. So far, 100% of the one person I''ve spoken to intends to remain on her leave as she has another job and doesn''t need the insurance. The other alternatives are, of course, returning to the line or quitting. Beth Mack (head honcha in STL) has said numerous times that the generous OVL''s literally cut attrition in half systemwide in the couple of years they''ve been available. So maybe it isn''t such a reach to expect a number of people to quit over this.

Another factor is the LLC aircraft. So far I''ve heard nothing about grounding the fleet, although nothing would surprise me these days. And I''ve heard nothing about what AA would do with the TWA pilots not yet AA trained yet not subject to furlough.

And the work rules will take time to implement, and more importantly, time to take effect.

All of the above is not meant to be argumentative; just meant to expand on your thoughts a little. The thought of 5000 furlough notices going out simultaneously seems highly unlikely to me. I think it will be 300-500 every couple of months as the company figures out just what it intends to do. This delay may allow attrition and the economy to catch up a little and grant some a reprieve from furlough.

MK
 

AAStew

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Feb 24, 2003
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S80Dude,(or anyone else is FLTSVC)
Has anyone heard when they will notify us on OLOA about rebidding or coming back? I for one need my benefits so I will be returning.
Also calculated into that # of returning F/A''s should be all the part-timers, who will return to full time. I think JA on her hotline said after May 1st there are approximately 1500 F/A''s on OLOA.
Thanks
 

s80dude

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I was told there are 2200 flight attendants on overage leave at the moment. I don''t think part timers are calculated in that. When I called Phone Watch, they said the company will begin to reproffer OLs in May. Those who elect to come back will do so June 1, 2003 along with the part timers.

I just flew with a girl who will be putting in for an OL when they are re-proffered. She got a sweet 1 year Information Tech contract job with bennies so she is going to take a year off, so who knows, maybe some people currently flying will opt for a new OL. Time will tell and it certainly will be interesting to see how this plays out. I''m curious to see how many numbers we all move up during the shuffle this summer. Perhaps someone cares to take a guess.
 

Flyboy4u

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Oct 6, 2002
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On 4/28/2003 6:36:03 PM s80dude wrote:

Ed,
When my FSM came down to introduce herself (i.e. give me a grooming check) she said they were sending out 5,000 WARN letters. Those people are subject to furlough, but as has been the case, the actual furlough number is different.

Perhaps that is where the rumor is coming from.

P.S. I don''t think the pilot furloughs are necessary linked to the FA furloughs this go round because the pilots have been sitting on an overage since January and their TA is overhauling their reserve system, meaning less reserves at each base, as well as other productivity issues.





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You still get grooming checks also. I though it was just me getting them, however, when you still have as many FSM''s that we do then the company has to justify giving them a paycheck somehow.
 
Apr 16, 2003
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Why dont we try to refrain from bashing other workgroups. The FSM are doing their jobs. Obviously there must be a need to ck uniforms. The same could be said about all departments.
 

AAStew

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Feb 24, 2003
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On 4/28/2003 10:26:03 PM Flyboy4u wrote:



On 4/28/2003 6:36:03 PM s80dude wrote:

Ed,
When my FSM came down to introduce herself (i.e. give me a grooming check)
Perhaps that is where the rumor is coming from.

PYou still get grooming checks also.  I though it was just me getting them, however, when you still have as many FSM''s that we do then the company has to justify giving them a paycheck somehow.


I still cannot figure out why we need so many FSM''s. Grooming checks? If that isn''t a waste of company money, what is?
 

AAStew

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Feb 24, 2003
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On 4/28/2003 10:38:15 PM Airline Crew Sched wrote:

Why dont we try to refrain from bashing other workgroups. The FSM are doing their jobs. Obviously there must be a need to ck uniforms. The same could be said about all departments.

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Sent you a message, read it please.