Need Some Clarification

[Flyboy4u]

Ok will someone shed some light on what is going on with this OVL's? If I am understanding this correctly just over 600 F/A's ( According to APFA website ) have yet to signup for recurrent training. This is approximately 1/2 of those currently out on OVL, correct? Is it my understanding that if the F/A's fail to signup for training by the 15th of June that they may not be able to bid for July, and start losing bidding seniority? However, nowhere in the contract does it state that these F/A's must resign their position at AA. Is this correct? So, in other words, a F/A on overage leave right now, who gives no notice of resignation, nor, signs up to take requalification training can ultimately decide to return to the company at will? For instance, next January if he/she decides to? This is one messed up Union and company contract.....


What Unity?

 

[TWAnr]

From the APFA website:

From the Contract Administration Department

Attention F/A's Returning From Overage Leaves:

Approximately 620 Flight Attendants on Overage Leave (OL) have yet to sign up for LOA and/or EPT training. Although there is no requirement to complete training prior to returning to work July 1st, there are several repercussions for not doing so.

All training must be accomplished prior to the end of the leave if Flight Attendants wish to hold a July bid. Training must be requested through the Training Support Desk by June 15th and scheduled in the month of June or you will hold AVBL once you are qualified.

The company will schedule you for training regardless of when you would like to attend starting July 1st, and AA has informed APFA that there are enough slots the first six days of July to accommodate all returning Flight Attendants. Remember that the first weekend is Fourth of July weekend and you could possibly be scheduled for training at that time.

Once you are qualifications insufficient (QI) you will immediately begin losing bidding seniority. Remember that fingerprinting can take from two to six weeks for the results, and you would be losing occupational seniority during that time as well.

In order to avoid losing seniority and not be awarded a bid, it is pertinent Overage Leave Flight Attendants attend training as soon as possible. For those requiring the 2 ½ week LOA training, there is a class scheduled for JUN14th. For more information please call the Training Support Desk.

 

[Flyboy4u]

TWAnr

I have read that info but where in any of this information does it say those who refuse to signup for retraining and dont' get requalified must resign with the company. So in other words, these F/A's can string along AA for as long as they want without any repercussions except starting to lose bidding seniority. Which is a pretty vague statement at the best. What does that mean? THeir seniority falls off to the bottom of the list? Does anyone have this information?


What Unity?

 

[kirkpatrick]

Read page 185 of the contract. I won't bother to copy it all here. Believe me, anyone not returning from leave is terminated. Once a leave is over, it's over, and they can't "string the company along" any more than any other FA can just take off for a few months whenever they want to.

MK

 

[Flyboy4u]

Thank You Kirkpatrick thats all I was asking....Unfortunately this "so called" union can't state that in their hotline message. Instead, they say some vastly vague thing like you will begin to lose bidding seniority. What the hell is that? If you don't return from leave then you are terminated!! Why can't they tell the truth? I guess it's just the AA way to lie!

What Unity?

 

[MiAAmi]

Thank You Kirkpatrick thats all I was asking....Unfortunately this "so called" union can't state that in their hotline message. Instead, they say some vastly vague thing like you will begin to lose bidding seniority. What the hell is that? If you don't return from leave then you are terminated!! Why can't they tell the truth? I guess it's just the AA way to lie!

What Unity?

Why do you want to come back if all your headed for is a so called union and a company that lies to you? Also, why do you think that asking for information on USAviation is better than calling the union or company directly. The information was already in your contract you just needed someone to point to it for you. I want to remind you that the so called union at AA is you and me. I would not refer to you as a so called flight attendant so could you give me the same respect as a union member. Remember you paid your dues when you were here let the union work for you... call them directly to get your information, I'm sure they would rather interpret the contract for you so that you knew exactly what things meant.

Hang in there.

 

[twasilverbullet]

miaami, that was very rude of you, flyboy was just asking a simple question. Let me add that the so called union at AA is not you and I, it is apfa and you! :down:

 

[Flyboy4u]

Thank You Miaami


I should have known I could count on you to always put a cheerful, positive spin on everything. You always have such a wealth of knowledge, and it's always so pleasant reading your posts. I mean this union has done nothing but great things for you and your buddies. Geesh, if it wasn't for the APFA throwing their own members on the street, and those mean old TWA F/A's out there with us you wouldn't have the "Greatest Job in the World". It's so easy for you to criticize but FYI the day the APFA took my money and threw me on the street without anything so you could have what pay you have, and what benefits you have. Me and my fellow furloughees took out our contracts, had a bonfire with them, and had a toast the great union in hopes that they would prosper for many more years to come. So as you can see, it's not that easy for me to go and pull out my contract. Not that its actaually followed anyways. Now where is that toilet? I think I am going to be sick!


What Unity?

 

[MiAAmi]

Thank You Miaami


I should have known I could count on you to always put a cheerful, positive spin on everything. You always have such a wealth of knowledge, and it's always so pleasant reading your posts. I mean this union has done nothing but great things for you and your buddies. Geesh, if it wasn't for the APFA throwing their own members on the street, and those mean old TWA F/A's out there with us you wouldn't have the "Greatest Job in the World". It's so easy for you to criticize but FYI the day the APFA took my money and threw me on the street without anything so you could have what pay you have, and what benefits you have. Me and my fellow furloughees took out our contracts, had a bonfire with them, and had a toast the great union in hopes that they would prosper for many more years to come. So as you can see, it's not that easy for me to go and pull out my contract. Not that its actaually followed anyways. Now where is that toilet? I think I am going to be sick!


What Unity?

whatever makes you feel better.

 

[MiAAmi]

miaami, that was very rude of you, flyboy was just asking a simple question. Let me add that the so called union at AA is not you and I, it is apfa and you! :down:

I'm sorry if that sounded rude but I was trying to point out that its always better to go to the horses mouth for info. Flyboy4u seems very anxious about getting the right info, I was just suggesting a better channel. Silverbullet, if you voted in the last election you are very much a part of APFA. The TW'ers should pride themselves on the power of their vote. Make no mistake TWA made a huge difference in what is now APFA.

 

[jimntx]

Thank You Kirkpatrick thats all I was asking....Unfortunately this "so called" union can't state that in their hotline message. Instead, they say some vastly vague thing like you will begin to lose bidding seniority. What the hell is that? If you don't return from leave then you are terminated!! Why can't they tell the truth? I guess it's just the AA way to lie!

What Unity?

They are not lying. There is a "last chance" so to speak. Read the announcement again. If an OVL does not re-qualify in May or June AND does not contact the training desk for a training slot, they will be scheduled by the company for the appropriate training class in the first week of July.

However, beginning 01JUL they will begin to lose bidding seniority until they complete the scheduled training and are re-qualified. So, we are talking about losing 1, maybe 2, weeks of seniority. In my case, it would mean that my seniority would drop by almost 100 numbers. There was a HUGE class that graduated the week after me plus all the people in my class that were junior to me.

Now, that being said, if they do not report to training on the date scheduled, they will be terminated.

I would not, however, read too much into the fact that 620 had not responded to company inquiries as to their plans. A flight attendant on OVL has no obigation to notify the company of their plans to return or not return at the end of the leave--especially if they don't care when they are scheduled for re-qual training.

For all we know, some of those who have told the company that they are returning may not return, and may have said that just to inconvenience the company as much as possible. We are not going to know for sure about the actual number of returnees until probably the middle of July.

Also, remember, as far as I know the plans to terminate the STL base are still on schedule for sometime in September. That will be approximately 400 additional flight attendants returning to the AA fold. And, if they have stuck it out this long on the TW side of the fence, I imagine they will all return to AA in the Fall.

 

[TWAnr]

Why do you want to come back if all your headed for is a so called union and a company that lies to you?

MiAAmi,

Remember the ugly divisive days, thirty some years ago, when the Nixon and Agnew supporters proclaimed to their political adversaries "America, love it or leave it"?

Your post is eerily reminiscent of that era.

I don't see you packing your bags and emigrating just because you don't care for the present administration. Just as you are enjoying the freedom to criticize our government's present policies and as you are promoting a change of national leadership, APFA members have the freedom and obligation to fight to reform their union and to strive for improvements in their work conditions and environment.

 

[MiAAmi]

MiAAmi,

Remember the ugly divisive days, thirty some years ago, when the Nixon and Agnew supporters proclaimed to their political adversaries "America, love it or leave it"?

Your post is eerily reminiscent of that era.

I don't see you packing your bags and emigrating just because you don't care for the present administration. Just as you are enjoying the freedom to criticize our government's present policies and as you are promoting a change of national leadership, APFA members have the freedom and obligation to fight to reform their union and to strive for improvements in their work conditions and environment.

TWAnr,

Come on really. Thats quite a stretch. I know I wouldn't go back to a company I felt was dishonest or a union that I didn't respect. What I was trying to point out is the fact that something must outweigh all this for flyboy to want to come back. And its not just a paycheck.

 

[TWAnr]

I have read that info but where in any of this information does it say those who refuse to signup for retraining and dont' get requalified must resign with the company.

Kirkpatrick filled in the gaps.

However, I wanted to add that to me it would appear that the company is intimidating flight attendants on overage leave into returning early from OVL in order to complete the recurrent training before the official end of their leaves on July 1.

The only ones who, I believe, may lose bidding seniority are the flight attendants who require to undergo the 2 ½ week LOA training and who will not be qualified to fly until the third week of July unless they enroll in the June 14 class.

 

[TWAnr]

Come on really. Thats quite a stretch.

No MiAAmi, it is not a stretch. You posts, for as long as I have been reading them, have been sending the distinct message of "AA and APFA, love them or leave them", originally to the TWAers and now to the dissident nAAtives as well.

I admire those who have the resilience to fight to reform this union and to change the company for the better.