New Proposal for the Mechanics is Coming

ual747mech

Senior
Nov 26, 2002
279
0
Glenn Tilton says We will immediately begin talks with the IAM141M leadership to ensure that a contract proposal consistent with the coalition''s framework is brought before the membership as soon as possible Full article is in www.businesswire.com.
Sounds like we are going keep voting after all. Sounds like it''s going to be the same package, just done differently?
 

mancityfan

Member
Aug 20, 2002
57
0
The new deal will be..."You guys figure out how you want to divvy up the $1.5 billion and get back to us when you have figured it out. In the meantime, we are going to have to meet with our BK attorneys AGAIN, because you have taken us one giant step closer to the brink at a time when we are collectively begging for the ONLY lifeline the company has at its disposal, the ATSB loans!

If and when you THINK you have figured out what the f**k is going on, let us know, and we can organize a vote. In the meantime, we all have to sit on pins and needles waiting for the 141M guys to figure out if they want to be paid like pilots for their A&P, or whether they want to be guaranteed a job for life in an industry that is slowly being choked to death, or perhaps they want us to guarantee that what happened to their brethren at USAir will NOT happen to them, even though it is THEM who are sending us into BK in the first place. When you guys have figured out exactly what it is you can agree to give up that is worth the $1.5 billion YOU agreed to in your "coalition", let us know. But if you think the BK judge will think that 7% is too stepp, just let us know now, and we can all ask him tomorrow."

Signed,

Glen, the exasperated new CEO of UAL
 

novaqt

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
488
0
UAL747mech:

Flexibility goes out the window when there is less manpower to work with. The company has to run the company with the manpower they have. If the company is not hiring and growing, the company cannot afford to be flexible with your shift and DAT's. Where is your common sense in all this??? Are you so selfish and blindsided that you lose all perspective of running a business???
 
OP
U

ual747mech

Senior
Nov 26, 2002
279
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/28/2002 11:03:54 AM mancityfan wrote:

The new deal will be..."You guys figure out how you want to divvy up the $1.5 billion and get back to us when you have figured it out. In the meantime, we are going to have to meet with our BK attorneys AGAIN, because you have taken us one giant step closer to the brink at a time when we are collectively begging for the ONLY lifeline the company has at its disposal, the ATSB loans!

If and when you THINK you have figured out what the f**k is going on, let us know, and we can organize a vote. In the meantime, we all have to sit on pins and needles waiting for the 141M guys to figure out if they want to be paid like pilots for their A&P, or whether they want to be guaranteed a job for life in an industry that is slowly being choked to death, or perhaps they want us to guarantee that what happened to their brethren at USAir will NOT happen to them, even though it is THEM who are sending us into BK in the first place. When you guys have figured out exactly what it is you can agree to give up that is worth the $1.5 billion YOU agreed to in your "coalition", let us know. But if you think the BK judge will think that 7% is too stepp, just let us know now, and we can all ask him tomorrow."

Signed,

Glen, the exasperated new CEO of UAL
----------------
[/blockquote]
Lol,, Hey mancity relax man, everything's gonna be allright bro. Me, I didn't even vote but I'm glad it turned out the way it did. I know the consequences of bankruptcy, you don't have to tell me but there's something wrong with the package like vacation not getting paid and things in workplace that needs to change, it's like a prison system no flexibility whatsoever. Being on 6 days on and 2 days off is a f***ed up schedule and no end in sight. No flexibility when it comes to taking your dat days. I know it's all about the needs of the business but things can be better, like when we had the esop, nobody was complaining that much then cause we had better schedule more flexibility, non of that prison mentality like it is now. I know we are going to be voting on the same package(the mechanic's part only)but let's see how they are going to redo it so just chill and relax, k bro.
 
OP
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ual747mech

Senior
Nov 26, 2002
279
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/28/2002 12:58:18 PM novaqt wrote:

UAL747mech:

Flexibility goes out the window when there is less manpower to work with. The company has to run the company with the manpower they have. If the company is not hiring and growing, the company cannot afford to be flexible with your shift and DAT's. Where is your common sense in all this??? Are you so selfish and blindsided that you lose all perspective of running a business???
----------------
[/blockquote]
You obviously don't understand how it's like where were at. But don't ya worry this will pass once they tweak it the right way I'm sure.
 

gatemech

Senior
Aug 24, 2002
356
5
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
----------------
From novaqt

Flexibility goes out the window when there is less manpower to work with. The company has to run the company with the manpower they have. If the company is not hiring and growing, the company cannot afford to be flexible with your shift and DAT's. Where is your common sense in all this??? Are you so selfish and blindsided that you lose all perspective of running a business???
----------------
[/blockquote]

Flexibility with the shift can be done. They don't want us to be happy. Boston got the 10-hour shift back for graveyard only. As it should be. This should be system wide. Most planes are down the longest at night. That is when most of the work gets done. As for the DATS they make it difficult to use. They only allow 80 hours of DAT. It seems to me that allowing us to use all DATS they would only be missing us for a day here and there. Not for a whole week. Thing used to work great. The powers to be needed to show their muscle. If the airline is a 24/7 operation then why do all the managers stay home on weekends and holidays? They should be under the same schedule. If we don't need them on weekends then maybe we don't need them at all. Weekend seem to run smooth without them.
 

spacewaitress

Senior
Aug 27, 2002
468
0
Do the employee directors keep their seats on the BOD if we end up in BK? The BOD we have would just as soon break the airline apart and sell off the pieces don't you think? That is unless the employee directors are still sitting...or will they be bought off too...wasn't it Peterpaul who voted yes on the USAir fiasco?
 

atabuy

Senior
Oct 13, 2002
419
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/28/2002 9:37:07 PM gatemech wrote:

Flexibility with the shift can be done. They don't want us to be happy. Boston got the 10-hour shift back for graveyard only. As it should be. This should be system wide. Most planes are down the longest at night. That is when most of the work gets done. As for the DATS they make it difficult to use. They only allow 80 hours of DAT. It seems to me that allowing us to use all DATS they would only be missing us for a day here and there. Not for a whole week. Thing used to work great. The powers to be needed to show their muscle. If the airline is a 24/7 operation then why do all the managers stay home on weekends and holidays? They should be under the same schedule. If we don't need them on weekends then maybe we don't need them at all. Weekend seem to run smooth without them.
----------------
[/blockquote]
There are many ways to look at your job and schedule. My personal view has always been this: I work to live, Not live to work.
Sometimes companies get so caught up in what the goal is, they forget that the people who are helping to achieve it are workers with a life outside of work also.

I think everything you do to make sure workers get the best quality of life posible will be returned.

I had the chance to talk with a grievance hearing officer after some hearings and ask him why Ual did away with the 10 hour day.
He said when the union proposed the 10 hour day to the company, it was with the understanding that it would reduce sick time and increase productivity.
The company found that this was not happening. In fact, it was taking longer to overhaul a plane, and there were more sick calls.
I can't prove or disprove what happen, but with language going into the new contract, I think it was in the companies best interest to get rid of it.
Maybe if you talk with your leaders and state it would be done as long as it worked for both groups, it could be brought back.
I think the ball is in your court on this.

Sometimes we take things for granted. I have seen this over and over within the company.
The 6 and 2 pattern was the only rotating pattern for years and years. A lot of stations started working the 4&2 pattern, but according to the contract, union officials said it was not a legal pattern because it had split days off in it.
The four and two works like this:
Week 1 off M&F ( split days off )
2 T&F
3 W&T
4 T&W
5 M&T
6 S&S
7 S&S
A lot of folks like working not as long a stretch as what the 6&2 pattern works.

A vote was taken by the membership which include this 4&2 pattern and also the 10 hour day. Ramp did not pass the 10 hour day, but did along with all the other groups vote in the 2&4 pattern only on a voluntary basis. That also went for the 10 hour day. This was not something you could be forced on.
 

mancityfan

Member
Aug 20, 2002
57
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/28/2002 12:51:52 PM ual747mech wrote:

Lol, Hey mancity relax man, everything's gonna be allright bro. Me, I didn't even vote but I'm glad it turned out the way it did. I know the consequences of bankruptcy, you don't have to tell me but there's something wrong with the package like vacation not getting paid and things in workplace that needs to change, it's like a prison system no flexibility whatsoever. Being on 6 days on and 2 days off is a f***ed up schedule and no end in sight. No flexibility when it comes to taking your dat days. I know it's all about the needs of the business but things can be better, like when we had the esop, nobody was complaining that much then cause we had better schedule more flexibility, non of that prison mentality like it is now. I know we are going to be voting on the same package(the mechanic's part only)but let's see how they are going to redo it so just chill and relax, k bro.
----------------
[/blockquote]
UAL747MECH,

K,

Bro.

However, should this all turn VERY pear shaped, you will be at least one bro short!

MCF
 
OP
U

ual747mech

Senior
Nov 26, 2002
279
0
There are many ways to look at your job and schedule. My personal view has always been this: I work to live, Not live to work.
Sometimes companies get so caught up in what the goal is, they forget that the people who are helping to achieve it are workers with a life outside of work also.

I think everything you do to make sure workers get the best quality of life posible will be returned.

I had the chance to talk with a grievance hearing officer after some hearings and ask him why Ual did away with the 10 hour day.
He said when the union proposed the 10 hour day to the company, it was with the understanding that it would reduce sick time and increase productivity.
The company found that this was not happening. In fact, it was taking longer to overhaul a plane, and there were more sick calls.
I can't prove or disprove what happen, but with language going into the new contract, I think it was in the companies best interest to get rid of it.
Maybe if you talk with your leaders and state it would be done as long as it worked for both groups, it could be brought back.
I think the ball is in your court on this.

Sometimes we take things for granted. I have seen this over and over within the company.
The 6 and 2 pattern was the only rotating pattern for years and years. A lot of stations started working the 4&2 pattern, but according to the contract, union officials said it was not a legal pattern because it had split days off in it.
The four and two works like this:
Week 1 off M&F ( split days off )
2 T&F
3 W&T
4 T&W
5 M&T
6 S&S
7 S&S
A lot of folks like working not as long a stretch as what the 6&2 pattern works.

A vote was taken by the membership which include this 4&2 pattern and also the 10 hour day. Ramp did not pass the 10 hour day, but did along with all the other groups vote in the 2&4 pattern only on a voluntary basis. That also went for the 10 hour day. This was not something you could be forced on.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Per our agreement, it's actually the other way around, 4 and 2 is legal and 6 and 2 is illegal. Per our agreement rdo pattern calls for an unconsecutive days off which the 4 and 2 does. A lot of people are angry because the Union is not doing anything about it, that's another reason people are so angry, the Union is not looking out for the people's interest.
 
OP
U

ual747mech

Senior
Nov 26, 2002
279
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/29/2002 7:33:32 PM atabuy wrote:

[[/blockquote]
----------------
[/blockquote]
If language was changed I am not aware of it. Will have to look when I go back to work.
What chapter and Para.?

----------------
[/blockquote]
Look under Art VI 2b or b2. I'm not sure, don't have contract book w/me.
 
OP
U

ual747mech

Senior
Nov 26, 2002
279
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/29/2002 7:33:32 PM atabuy wrote:

[[/blockquote]
----------------
[/blockquote]
If language was changed I am not aware of it. Will have to look when I go back to work.
What chapter and Para.?

----------------
[/blockquote]
Look under Art VI 2b or b2. I'm not sure, don't have contract book w/me.
 

atabuy

Senior
Oct 13, 2002
419
0
[[/blockquote]
Per our agreement, it's actually the other way around, 4 and 2 is legal and 6 and 2 is illegal. Per our agreement rdo pattern calls for an unconsecutive days off which the 4 and 2 does. A lot of people are angry because the Union is not doing anything about it, that's another reason people are so angry, the Union is not looking out for the people's interest.
----------------
[/blockquote]
If language was changed I am not aware of it. Will have to look when I go back to work.
What chapter and Para.?