New Shuttle Competition

Light Years

Veteran
Aug 27, 2002
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www.usaviation.com
Looks like we will have more competition for the US Airways Shuttle. JetBlue is launching a JFK-BOS Shuttle with thier new 190s. They will also start RIC and AUS service.

JetBlue to Expland Routes

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JetBlue looks for space with Embraer 190

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What are the plans for the Shuttle? They need to put 170s and 190s on it... it's a better cabin product than the Airbus, and a few less seats could demand a higher premium. Oh yeah, that's right we're selling those.

It was also free up a bunch of Airbuses that could be used to connect Airways East with Airways West. Instead of using long haul capable airplanes on the Shuttle, they could be starting routes like PDX SNA SLC etc from the East.

Do we even have a defined Shuttle brand currently? It's just mainline planes with free booze, right?
 
The shuttle is something we really, really need to fight for. The shuttle and its product have been so diluted over the past few years. I did TDY from PIT a few years ago and flew the shuttle back then a few times. Why we never adapted some procedure from shuttle on mainline is beyond me such as the C f/a standing in the middle of the cabin in the blocked seat to monitor bags and close overheads. The svc equally divided between 3 and stuff like that. It was clockwork. The whole f/c bs and when they were throwing 737's and dc-9's was horrible. Crews didn't even know what they were doing on the shuttle. I think the shuttle needs a major overhaul and totally agree with Light Years that the airbus could be better used in other markets. We shall see....
 
It's my understanding that Airways has retained the 190's for mainline. I suggest deploying them as a direct response to this attack...and to free up larger aircraft for better utilization..right-sizing, if you will.
 
Travelpro72 said:
The shuttle is something we really, really need to fight for. The shuttle and its product have been so diluted over the past few years. I did TDY from PIT a few years ago and flew the shuttle back then a few times. Why we never adapted some procedure from shuttle on mainline is beyond me such as the C f/a standing in the middle of the cabin in the blocked seat to monitor bags and close overheads. The svc equally divided between 3 and stuff like that. It was clockwork. The whole f/c bs and when they were throwing 737's and dc-9's was horrible. Crews didn't even know what they were doing on the shuttle. I think the shuttle needs a major overhaul and totally agree with Light Years that the airbus could be better used in other markets. We shall see....
[post="311282"][/post]​


REMEMBER THIS IS NOT THE FIRST ATTEMPT AT A JFK-BOS SHUTTLE TYPE RUN.....TWA TRIED IT WITH TSA DBA/ TRANS WORLD EXPRESS.......

THAT SAID US MGMT NEEDS TO EVALUATE SHUTTLE PRODUCT
 
I totally agree about the Shuttle procedures from when it was more of a seperate brand. One thing that did come from the Shuttle was the half size carts used on the Airbus fleet- the Shuttle didn't want cabin crew mooning the customers and found that the "modified pinch" service worked well on those short flights (the crew did service like this... A-><-CD-><-B) Of course they recently did away with this because our F/As are too stupid to stock the cart correctly and therefore a baby was scalded.

The pairings were set up as all one-days. You did two Shuttle round trips in the morning afternoon or evening... no swaps, four F/As. I know the days of a fourth F/A on a/c that size are gone, as well as the "standby" crew and aircraft. But considering the airports it operated out of, that thing operated like clockwork every hour on the hour.

The product has been diluted alot as it has been mixed in with mainline. Since the brand is pretty vague and it uses regular airplanes and crews from wherever, they don't follow what few Shuttle-specific procedures are in place.

TWA flew Trans States Jetstream 41s on JFK-BOS. A thiry seat turboprop with no service (no galley to even do one) and a cabin you can't stand up in. This was more for international connections than in direct competition with the US Airways Shuttle and Delta Shuttle. I don't think it was even hourly.

American runs an hourly operation with American Eagle RJs with some of the shuttle-style amenities. I'm not sure it's very successful. USAir outbid AA for the Shuttle back in the day, so American used to codeshare with the US Airways Shuttle until the United merger was about to happen.

US should get 190s NOW... they have the EMB qualified crews still in place (for now) with a large DCA crew base. They could operate it with the MAA crews out of DC and utilize the Airbuses where they are better suited. Those planes are more comfortable than the Airbuses and Boeings, require less crew and can be turned quicker. The 170s board really quickly because the aisles and legroom are wider, meaning that boarding doesn't come to a halt while one person puts thier bag in the overhead.

Delta Shuttle has open seating while US has assigned seating (and now, because of mainline configuration, a pointless first class that takes up more boarding time). US likes to brag about having assigned seating, but this wouldn't be as much of an issue on a 190 as there are no middle seats and every seat has great legroom like the Shuttle planes used to.
 
Light Years said:
I totally agree about the Shuttle procedures from when it was more of a seperate brand. One thing that did come from the Shuttle was the half size carts used on the Airbus fleet- the Shuttle didn't want cabin crew mooning the customers and found that the "modified pinch" service worked well on those short flights (the crew did service like this... A-><-CD-><-B) Of course they recently did away with this because our F/As are too stupid to stock the cart correctly and therefore a baby was scalded.

The pairings were set up as all one-days. You did two Shuttle round trips in the morning afternoon or evening... no swaps, four F/As. I know the days of a fourth F/A on a/c that size are gone, as well as the "standby" crew and aircraft. But considering the airports it operated out of, that thing operated like clockwork every hour on the hour.

The product has been diluted alot as it has been mixed in with mainline. Since the brand is pretty vague and it uses regular airplanes and crews from wherever, they don't follow what few Shuttle-specific procedures are in place.
[post="311286"][/post]​




MIGHT WANT TO CHECK THE FACTS..........

IE: our F/As are too stupid to stock the cart correctly

***CART STOCKED CORRECTLY, BEGIN SERVICE, ITEMS USED, CART BECOMES UNSTABLE, CART TIPS...... F/A FOLLOWED POLICY, COMPANY POLICY AT FAULT NOT A STUPID F/A***

SHUTTLE PAIRINGS BEING RESTORED TO PURE SHUTTLE FLYING NOW.

BTW TRANS STATES WAS HOURLY........AND IT WAS RUN FOR TWA AT FIRST THEN AS A DOUBLE CODESHARE TW/DL.
 
Those half carts were the most insane thing. As you used your products they became top heavy. Not to mention if someone had a foot or strap from a bag in the aisle and you hit it, goodbye cart. You had to be extra careful not to tip it. The whole concept of not wanting the pax to see your backside is nuts. As POSH as the 330 service was on transatlantic when we first got it we always used the full cart and mooned everyone. I liked handing the lunch bag out during boarding as well. That was sweet. Not so fond of the apple in the cup though. If something worked that well it should have worked throughout the system.
 
OK, it's hard to read in caps... that translates to shouting. Anyway...

Carts... the F/A had removed the ice bucket from the bottom and had the coffee pot in the Atlas drawer. Sounds unbelievable but I used to see it done all the time. If that's not the case with the baby, well, that's what they are telling F/As in recurrent in CLT. I think the single carts were alot more classy (not to mention cost saving as they could be used on everything from a CRJ to an A330). They should have simply added weights to the bottom with a shorter ice bucket instead of retrofitting all of the planes with that obnoxious double cart. The cost was probably equal to dozens of F/As yearly salaries.

I had heard they were restoring Shuttle specific pairings but I think out of Shuttle city crews still work it and could maybe use a refresher since they don't read the P&P now that it's online.

First Class. Dumb idea. Shuttle has traditionally been an upgraded product for the whole cabin, they were doing the JetBlue type of product years ago. No one needs FC for a 40 minute flight. Plus it makes boarding more drama in both the gate area and in the cabin.

The A319 is more spacious than Delta's offering. However, an A319 doesn't compare to an E170/190 for personal space. The 170, while US's smallest aircraft, has the widest seat, aisle, and legroom in the entire fleet. It is also the only a/c with leather seats, no middle seat, and adjustable headrests.

The water taxi has nothing to do with US Airways Shuttle. It leaves from the Marine Air Terminal, which is a seperate terminal a mile away and houses the Delta Shuttle. Delta owned the water taxi until a few years ago, I think it's independantly owned now but is still more convienient to Delta Shuttle passengers.

I'm not sure whether or not US still has the sedan service. I think they do, but I'm not sure if it's in all three cities. LGA and BOS have Shuttle gate/lounge areas, DCA does not.

The apple in a cup was pretty stupid, alot of crews skipped it. But the lunch bag, "US Airways Shuttle News" (is that what it was called?), the headsets and news broadcasts, and La Petit snacks were nifty. These are the types of things the new US should be looking at for the mainline- a low-cost, but classy business product. Like I said, I think that's where JetBlue got alot of thier ideas.
 
Light Years said:
US should get 190s NOW...
[post="311286"][/post]​

I'm not sure you could get a 190 NOW if you showed up in Brazil and wanted to pay cash on the spot. As of June 30, there were 177 firm orders for the 190 with 100 of those being Jetblue's.

In addition, the "educational" material that was put out with the vote on the 190 portion of the transition agreement said that the company wouldn't have any till 2008 at the earliest.

Jim
 
Well, they still have 28 170s and some really great crews... well, for they do for a couple more months. :(

Hey Boeing Boy, out of interest, about how many planes does it take to run the Shuttle? I'd imagine quite a few.
 
Light Years said:
OK, it's hard to read in caps... that translates to shouting. Anyway...

Carts... the F/A had removed the ice bucket from the bottom and had the coffee pot in the Atlas drawer. Sounds unbelievable but I used to see it done all the time. If that's not the case with the baby, well, that's what they are telling F/As in recurrent in CLT. I think the single carts were alot more classy (not to mention cost saving as they could be used on everything from a CRJ to an A330). They should have simply added weights to the bottom with a shorter ice bucket instead of retrofitting all of the planes with that obnoxious double cart. The cost was probably equal to dozens of F/As yearly salaries.

CLT RECURRENT IS WRONG ABOUT THE CART.....THEY ARE POURING THE KOOL-AID

THE RETRO FIT CART IS SIMPLY A MEAL CART.....ALREADY HAD THEM.

SINGLE CARTS NEVER LEFT THE A/C IN THE END ......F/A'S HAD TO RESTOCK THEM... GAVE UP ON THE "COST SAVINGS" OF CHANGING THEM OUT.

I had heard they were restoring Shuttle specific pairings but I think out of Shuttle city crews still work it and could maybe use a refresher since they don't read the P&P now that it's online.

THEY ARE BACK TO ONE AND 2 DAY TRIPS STAFFED OUT OF SHUTTLE BASES NOW OR IN NOVEMBER.........

F/A SHOULD KNOW POLICY IF NOT LOOK IT UP IT ONLY GETS PUT OUT IN A SERVICE GUIDE-LINE EVERY MONTH

First Class. Dumb idea. Shuttle has traditionally been an upgraded product for the whole cabin, they were doing the JetBlue type of product years ago. No one needs FC for a 40 minute flight. Plus it makes boarding more drama in both the gate area and in the cabin.

F/C A GOOD IDEA....AND IM SURE YOU SEE ON OUR SHORTER FLTS ITS JUST AS FULL AS THE LONG HAUL........AND IF A/C IS BOARDED CORRECTLY AND F/A IS PROACTIVE IN THE CABIN....THERE IS NO DRAMA.....REMEMBER THAT MOST OF THE TIME ITS US OR OUR COWORKERS THAT CREATE IT.

The A319 is more spacious than Delta's offering. However, an A319 doesn't compare to an E170/190 for personal space. The 170, while US's smallest aircraft, has the widest seat, aisle, and legroom in the entire fleet. It is also the only a/c with leather seats, no middle seat, and adjustable headrests.

NOW THAT IS OPINION I FIND THE 170 UNCOMFORTABLE, AND THE FLTS TEND TO GET WT RESTRICTED.......

AND IT MDA COST IS HIGHER THAN A MAINLINE 737 TO OPERATE, YEAH THAT IS CORRECT THAT ALL SAVING RJ COSTS US MORE TO FLY THEN THAT OLD 737.

The water taxi has nothing to do with US Airways Shuttle. It leaves from the Marine Air Terminal, which is a seperate terminal a mile away and houses the Delta Shuttle. Delta owned the water taxi until a few years ago, I think it's independantly owned now but is still more convienient to Delta Shuttle passengers.

THE WATER TAXI IS AN OFFERING STILL AND IT IS USED

I'm not sure whether or not US still has the sedan service. I think they do, but I'm not sure if it's in all three cities. LGA and BOS have Shuttle gate/lounge areas, DCA does not.

DCA HAS A SHUTTLE GATE AREA JUST NOT LIKE LGA OR BOS THEY OFFER THE PERIODICALS AND HAVE SOME LAPTOP PORTS AND ADDITIONAL SEATIND/ DEDICATED GATES.

BTW NOT SHOUTING CAPS KEY IS STUCK TILL PAYDAY
[post="311299"][/post]​
[/quot
 
Light Years said:
Hey Boeing Boy, out of interest, about how many planes does it take to run the Shuttle? I'd imagine quite a few.
[post="311307"][/post]​

I have no idea, LY. Presumably you'd need at least 2 planes for LGA-BOS and at least 2 more for LGA-DCA. If you want to count DCA-BOS as Shuttle (although it wasn't part of the original EAL Shuttle), that'd take at least 2 more, possibly 3. That assumes hourly departures each way in each market. It would depend on departure times both ways and how much slack you wanted in the aircraft scheduling to absorb delays.

Jim
 
airportman said:
Light Years said:
NOW THAT IS OPINION I FIND THE 170 UNCOMFORTABLE, AND THE FLTS TEND TO GET WT RESTRICTED.......

AND IT MDA COST IS HIGHER THAN A MAINLINE 737 TO OPERATE, YEAH THAT IS CORRECT THAT ALL SAVING RJ COSTS US MORE TO FLY THEN THAT OLD 737.

[post="311299"][/post]​
[/quot
[post="311308"][/post]​
Well if you find the biggest seats in the fleet other than first uncomfortable, I cant argue it.
Cost however is not subjective. The 170 crews are paid dirt wages, all the 170 specific labor is at a level that makes employees eligable for government assistance.
Fuel burn is half of a 737 in cruise usually less than 4000LBS per hour total.
Not to mention the 170 is hardly an RJ. But keep telling yourself it is, as this makes it easier for management to outsource more.

ALL or NONE!!!
 
One thing US should have done was keep the F100s
and use them on the shuttle routes, i think they would have been a ideal aircraft, also
US should repaint the "SHUTTLE" back on the planes, they look distinctly only for shuttle, which i think is cool

i think i rode on shuttle i while back
i really dont remember

but i think A319s are ok, but for such short routes, any E170/75/90/95 is good enough for the route, especially less fuel consumption
 
There is no way a 170 is more expensive to operate than a 737! That much more fuel, plus topped out mainline pay? No way. Are you talking about RJs or E170s?

And I've never once seen an E170 weight restricted. Ever. Are you sure you're not thinking of the Embraer RJs? The 145s? They are constantly weight restricted... but the 170?

Not have I ever heard anyone think it's uncomfortable, normally people enjoy more legroom and a seat over an inch wider than the rest of the fleet. The 737 has a pitch of 31 inches compared to the 170's 32-33. As for seat width, the 737 has a width of 16 inches and the 170 has 18.1. I think most would find the 170 more comfortable. But maybe some people don't like having a bigger seat, who knows.

First Class is only full because the flight itself is full. Even pompous folks don't purchase first class seats on a Shuttle flight. Upgrade, yes, but not purchase.

DCA has the Shuttle at gates 41 and 43. These gates are used for mainline and MA flights as well. There's a magazine rack that rarely has magazines in it, but I don't think anyone considers it a Shuttle lounge.