No Airline Aid in Emergency Spending Plan

Hatu

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Aug 20, 2002
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Reuters
No Airline Aid in Emergency Spending Plan
Monday March 24, 8:33 pm ET
By John Crawley


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House included no airline aid in its proposal on Monday for emergency funding to pay for war in Iraq, but it has not ruled out the prospect of helping an industry that continues to cut service and jobs

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030324/airlines_aid_4.html
 

MiAAmi

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Aug 21, 2002
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Isn''t it funny how a couple of years ago Bush stated that he wouldn''t let any union strike at the airlines, "Because of the economic effect to the country". Well I guess if they all go bankrupt and thousands of workers are on the street that must be better for the economy! I can''t wait to vote this clown out of the white house.
 

Wild Onion

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First of all, there is no way that all airlines go out of business. One major and a smaller airline, but that''s it. Although it would be devastating for some of those employees, that would be good for the industry. Why should my tax dollars just delay the inevitable.

Secondly, as an AA employee, I wouldn''t mind seeing UA fail. It''s nothing malicious toward UA, it''s just that I would see the relative strength of AA improve dramatically.
 

Buck

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The problem seems to be capacity. Removal of this overage is going to help the industry. It is sad that it has to be at the demise of a whole company or two.
 
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On 3/25/2003 12:04:51 PM mwa wrote:

[ Deleted by moderator]

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Why? For speaking the truth?

Companies of all size and age go out of business every day, and it benefits their competitors.

There's no altruism in the business world, and there never should be.
 

Wild Onion

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I have several co-workers on layoff that I think very highly of.

If there is a choice between seeing UA stay alive or my own fellow friends and workers returning, then the choice is a no-brainer.

[ Deleted by moderator], then so be it.
 

Bob Owens

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Sep 9, 2002
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On 3/25/2003 12:17:37 PM eolesen wrote:

There's no altruism in the business world, and there never should be.

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True, but nobody expects business to be altruistic, the government on the other hand is another story. What the government should be looking at "is society and the consumer better off with fewer competitors?". Its strange how two years ago the government would not allow USAIR and UAL to merge, now they are prepared to let them, and us go out of business. In fact they claim that they are prepared to let all of the airlines go out of business if they cant make money. This whole thing is a farce, the industry has capitalized upon the events of Sept 11 and conspired with the government to lower wages. I say let the whole thing liquidate if thats what say they want. As I've said before we should beat them at their own game and all walk out and shut the whole industry down.We should expose thier hyposcrisy, one minute they tell workers at a single carrier that they can not stike because it is an essential industry but then turn around and say if you dont accept wage cuts they will allow several carriers to liquidate one right after the other. If we had a real labor movement like in Europe we would have shut the whole thing down a while ago but the old men that run the show only have fight in them when they fight their members, when it comes to taking on the government they are cowards.
 

MissAAmerican

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On 3/25/2003 11:11:07 AM Wild Onion wrote:

Secondly, as an AA employee, I wouldn''t mind seeing UA fail. It''s nothing malicious toward UA, it''s just that I would see the relative strength of AA improve dramatically.

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Be careful what you wish for as AA is currently looking for DIP financing and has not been successful. There is always the possibility that AA would skip Chapter 11 and go right into Chapter 7. Whatever happens will negatively impact my family.

AA Flight Attendant (married to UAL pilot)
 

iflyjetz

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Oct 2, 2002
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"Be careful what you wish for as AA is currently looking for DIP financing and has not been successful. There is always the possibility that AA would skip Chapter 11 and go right into Chapter 7. "

I''ve heard that also. As a furloughed UAL pilot, I hope that AMR is able to get DIP financing and stay in business. With AMR''s current cash burn, chap 11 is a foregone conclusion.

Pan Am & Eastern''s demise didn''t help the airlines still in business, and I don''t think that any major shuttering its doors will help the survivors this time around. Well, maybe the LCCs.
 

Winglet

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The Democrats, Republicans, and the general public care only that they can get cheap tickets and nothing else . . . . as long as airplanes don't start crashing . . . . well, at least not a lot.

The airline industry isn't going to be what it used to be. Working in the airline industry has about as much presigue as working in a bus station. Give it about a year and the pay will about the same.

Wait about a year. The politicians and public will be squawking like hell when all the seat pitches are tiny, you have to elbow your way on the airplane to try and snag an unreserved seat, the two fat guys next to you with the arm rests up are eating big onion cheeseburgers and the kid behind you is kicking your seat.
 
Aug 20, 2002
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Since deregulation the airlines have will be lucky to BREAK EVEN on a total of $1.4 TRILLION in revenue.

This is a staggering statistic folks!

Yes, some of the public has benefitted from low fares, certainly the airline employees have benefitted.

But that ride is rolling to a stop. The LLC''s are not the answer.

Dontcha think BA would jump at the chance to buy a chunk of AA on the cheap? But it would have to be more than 24.9% as the Brits probably still have a sour taste from that US write-off a few years ago.
 
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On 3/26/2003 9:45:09 AM iflyjetz wrote:

Pan Am & Eastern's demise didn't help the airlines still in business, and I don't think that any major shuttering its doors will help the survivors this time around. Well, maybe the LCCs.

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Sure it did. You just have to look back a bit further from Dec 91 and Jan 91 respectively.

DL benefitted the most from both Pan Am's and Eastern's demise.

Without Pan Am needing cash to stay alive, they never would have gotten the foothold they currently have in Europe and they were able to further cement their domination of ATL. They also wouldn't have gotten the Shuttle.

Likewise, AA's ability to get Latin America from Eastern, and UAL's ability to get LHR access from Pan Am benefitted all three carriers prior to 2001.

Looking past route swaps, US benefitted most from the loss of domestic capacity, both from the demise of the EAL mini-hub at PHL (sold to ML in late 1989, who later collapsed in Dec 91), as well as being able to grow their CLT hub in response to reduced competition via ATL.

The demise of EAL and PAA also helped out at least three LCC's. Carnival was able to tap into markets formerly flown by both EA and PA, and both Kiwi (92) and Valujet (94) were formed by ex-EAL and ex-PAA folks, flying in markets and with aircraft formerly flown by both carriers, with former employees from both carriers.

This time around, while the benefits might not be immediate, it would be foolish to think it will only benefit the LCC's.
 

Bob Owens

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Sep 9, 2002
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On 3/26/2003 9:45:09 AM iflyjetz wrote:

"Be careful what you wish for as AA is currently looking for DIP financing and has not been successful. There is always the possibility that AA would skip Chapter 11 and go right into Chapter 7. "

I've heard that also. As a furloughed UAL pilot, I hope that AMR is able to get DIP financing and stay in business. With AMR's current cash burn, chap 11 is a foregone conclusion.

Pan Am & Eastern's demise didn't help the airlines still in business, and I don't think that any major shuttering its doors will help the survivors this time around. Well, maybe the LCCs.

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I have to agree with Eolsen here. AA also benifited from the influx of experienced mechanics they got from EAL and Pan Am. AA was having trouble getting and keeping mechanics, especially in the New York area where if they did not just quit, they transferred out. Before EAL and Pan Am they would hire guys, send them to school for a month or two and then see them quit after a few weeks on nights. Some of the guys they hired from those carriers were well into their 50s and early 60s.