No Oct Pilot Permanent Bid

[BoeingBoy]

This is probably of most interest to furloughed pilots hoping for recalls, so thought I'd post it here for those without access to the ALPA site.

It was announced today that there will be no Oct permanent (base) bid. This means that the earliest that there will be a bid containing the Emb-190 positions is for a Nov 1 effective date, posted and open for bidding late next month.

Assuming that any recalls will be handled as last time, the approximate number will be known when the bid opens and furloughed pilots will be contacted after the bid closes and specific vacancies are known - probably very early Sep assuming that there's a bid for Nov.

Jim

 

[algflyr]

It was announced today that there will be no Oct permanent (base) bid. This means that the earliest that there will be a bid containing the Emb-190 positions is for a Nov 1 effective date, posted and open for bidding late next month.

Assuming that any recalls will be handled as last time, the approximate number will be known when the bid opens and furloughed pilots will be contacted after the bid closes and specific vacancies are known - probably very early Sep assuming that there's a bid for Nov.

Jim

OK, if the first 190's are coming in November, who will fly them? Training will take at least a month to get the initial line pilots qualified. If the bid is effective in November, can they start training in Sept for the pilots awarded a position in Nov? I thought they were waiting for the 190 arbitration on Aug 1 and 2 in order to know how many positions will be filled with west pilots... Is there a delay in the 190's now???

 

[BoeingBoy]

Per the contract, they can send someone to training as early as they want (though obviously not before the bid is awarded). So assuming a bid for Nov 1 that is awarded in very early Sep, the 1st line pilot class could start in mid-Sep. In plenty of time for the 1st deliveries in Nov.

Jim

[Edit to add]
If I remember correctly, the revenue service won't start till Dec. If the FAA will let us get by without proving runs, etc, the 190 bids could have an effective date of Dec 1. Training would still start much earlier, of course.

 

[algflyr]

Per the contract, they can send someone to training as early as they want (though obviously not before the bid is awarded). So assuming a bid for Nov 1 that is awarded in very early Sep, the 1st line pilot class could start in mid-Sep. In plenty of time for the 1st deliveries in Nov.

Jim

[Edit to add]
If I remember correctly, the revenue service won't start till Dec. If the FAA will let us get by without proving runs, etc, the 190 bids could have an effective date of Dec 1. Training would still start much earlier, of course.

Thanks,

I believe proving runs still have to be done, but are greatly reduced. I think 50-60 hrs. I also think there will be no lines in DEC, the revenue flying will just be additional segments added where needed. Hard lines will start in Jan.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Thanks. In theory, then, they could have a Jan 1 effective date on the bid for 190 positions but it'd have to be in a combined Dec/Jan bid because of the timeline for the permanent bid process and training lead time. I just can't see training on the 190 starting latter than late Sep/very early Oct, and a bid for Jan only wouldn't normally be awarded in time for that.

That means either that they'll also skip Nov and go with a Dec/Jan bid or have them on a Nov/Dec bid. With attrition, my guess is that skipping Nov is unlikely.

Jim

 

[PA18]

If I remember correctly, the revenue service won't start till Dec. If the FAA will let us get by without proving runs, etc, the 190 bids could have an effective date of Dec 1. Training would still start much earlier, of course.

Jim,

I don't expect you to know the answer to this, but I'm just throwing it out here.

Obviously, the West will get some of the 190 flying via the arbitration. Does that mean West pilots will have to bid PHL or CLT to fly the 190?

The reason I'm curious is that given the recent experience of operating the E-170 on the East mainline -- i.e. US Airways -- certificate, the introduction of the 190 should be relatively easy.

However, I doubt very much if management wants to spend the extra money to also get the 190 put on the America West certificate.

And with Parker now claiming that he's fine with operating the two companies separately, indefinitely, who knows when the West pilots will see the 190?

Just a thought...

 

[BoeingBoy]

You're right, I don't have any of the answers. Just some opinions which are worth exactly as much as they'll cost you....

Personally, I'm taking the "operate separately" talk as a negotiating tactic for now - and considering I'll be gone in 4 months that's the rest of my career. If it turns out otherwise, I'd hope that he would find out pretty quickly just how expensive it could become trying to do that.

As for the arbitrator, he can obviously rule in any of many ways. The 2 pilot groups and presumably the company will have to live with it.

Jim

 

[chevyman]

You're right, I don't have any of the answers. Just some opinions which are worth exactly as much as they'll cost you....

Personally, I'm taking the "operate separately" talk as a negotiating tactic for now - and considering I'll be gone in 4 months that's the rest of my career. If it turns out otherwise, I'd hope that he would find out pretty quickly just how expensive it could become trying to do that.

As for the arbitrator, he can obviously rule in any of many ways. The 2 pilot groups and presumably the company will have to live with it.

Jim

Really appreciate you thinking about the pilot furloughed type. I am one of them, hired in 89 and only worked 6 years on the property. What have you heard lately about any recalls? Any numbers or when they might occur?

Thanks,
Chevyman

 

[BoeingBoy]

What have you heard lately about any recalls? Any numbers or when they might occur?

I've heard nothing, so only opinion again....

I expect some recalls as a result of the next bid, assuming it has the 190's on it and is for Nov/Dec or Dec/Jan as discussed earlier. How many won't be known until the bid comes out, but based on the last recall a WAG would be 50-100 (depending on the 190 arbitration result & timing).

Roll those guesses together and you have:

Furloughee's contacted the 1st part of Sept for a Nov/Dec bid, or

Furloughee's contacted the 1st part of Oct for a Dec/Jan bid.

The actual recall date would be class date.

Jim

 

[chevyman]

I've heard nothing, so only opinion again....

I expect some recalls as a result of the next bid, assuming it has the 190's on it and is for Nov/Dec or Dec/Jan as discussed earlier. How many won't be known until the bid comes out, but based on the last recall a WAG would be 50-100 (depending on the 190 arbitration result & timing).

Roll those guesses together and you have:

Furloughee's contacted the 1st part of Sept for a Nov/Dec bid, or

Furloughee's contacted the 1st part of Oct for a Dec/Jan bid.

The actual recall date would be class date.

Thanks Jim

Jim

I've heard nothing, so only opinion again....

I expect some recalls as a result of the next bid, assuming it has the 190's on it and is for Nov/Dec or Dec/Jan as discussed earlier. How many won't be known until the bid comes out, but based on the last recall a WAG would be 50-100 (depending on the 190 arbitration result & timing).

Roll those guesses together and you have:

Furloughee's contacted the 1st part of Sept for a Nov/Dec bid, or

Furloughee's contacted the 1st part of Oct for a Dec/Jan bid.

The actual recall date would be class date.

Thanks Jim

Jim

 

[Swaayze]

Thank you for the info!

 

[BoeingBoy]

You're certainly welcome, though I'm not sure I'd elevate anything I said after the initial post to the level of "info". More like guesses...

Jim

 

[Freighterguynow]

Thanks from me as well there Jim. It really is a shame many of us furloughed types are banned from the MEC website.

Please pass along anything you have on recalls in the future...

 

[Freighterguynow]

That means either that they'll also skip Nov and go with a Dec/Jan bid or have them on a Nov/Dec bid. With attrition, my guess is that skipping Nov is unlikely.

Jim

Hey Jim - what IS attrition like these days?

Thanks

 

[autofixer]

Freighterguynow, I'm not Jim, but I flew with our LEC rep last week and he said the really big attrition starts in '07 and continues forever. I think he said 200+ normal age 60 retirements per year on the East side alone. Of course, the age 60 rule change could screw all this up.