Non-union Tp Participation

[USA320Pilot]

According to the WSJ, the Glanzer report, which had intended to poke holes in US Airways' assumptions, turnaround plan and requests for labor concessions, didn't find many. US Airways' plan, which calls for it to model itself after discounters such as America West Holdings, JetBlue Airways and AirTran Holdings, "is a thoughtful effort to devise a viable business plan, considering the company's assets and financial condition," the report said.

The bankers also concluded that the labor savings that US Airways is seeking aren't out of line, and "only on such basis would such a [turnaround] plan be potentially workable." They said the company seems to have taken full advantage of its first bankruptcy to reduce costs, and said they didn't see other significant opportunities for expense cutting, save for further employee givebacks, terminating other unions' pension plans or throttling back capital expenditures, the WSJ noted.

If the company is unable to extract new concessions from workers, the report concludes, US Airways has 180 to 270 days left of operation, because next month it must make several large payments to a pension fund and creditors. On Sept. 30, it also faces a crucial review by the federal government, which gave the company $900 million in federally backed loan guarantees.

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Absent new contracts with its pilots and three other major unions, Glanzer said, US Airways may have to file for bankruptcy, resulting in severe cutbacks for the pilots and less in return. A worst case, he said, would be a liquidation of the company and elimination of all 28,000 jobs within five months to eight months.

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Joe Tiberi, spokesman for the International Association of Machinists said late Thursday that he had not seen the report. He said the union, which represents mechanics and fleet service workers, remains unwilling to open its contract for concessionary talks, though it will suggest other cost-saving measures to the company.

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USA320Pilot comments: Michael Glanzer's report indicates that all of labor must participate in the new business plan or US Airways may have to file for bankruptcy, resulting in severe cutbacks for the pilots and less in return. Therefore, if the IAM or any other union does not participate then the company has no option but to seek cuts made by "imposition", which will be more "painful" on that employee group. If what the IAM publicly says is true, the union has given US Airways no option but to make the unions rank-and-file members irrelevant to the process.

As I have said before, the company has hired bankruptcy advisors and there is significant bankruptcy planning occurring with some of those plans "how to deal with the naysayers."

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[PITbull]

Glazer must be on the payrole or accidently bought too many shares of stock!

Everyone is in on the conspiracy to destroy labor in this industry.

I believe the company had every intention of going into BK. They are all dragging their feet with these proposals.

Welcome to hell, Bronner. Your reputation will is quicky going down the shitster along with your $240 million. Couldn't happen to a nicer, more friendly fella with the BIG MOUTH, to persude our customers to book elsewhere.

 

[USA320Pilot]

From another thread and it may be better to discuss these comments in this topic:

USA320Pilot said: “PITBull, the difference is the Glanzer report is not the company making the claim, but instead labors advisor making the claim. The report substantiates management's opinion of the environment and ALPA funded the report to poke holes into management's TP, which did not occur. Moreover, this could be a powerful tool used by the company in bankruptcy court against any union who does not participate in the new business plan, as evidence and then argument that labor has been unreasonable during the potential S.1113/S.1114 hearing.â€￾

Burghlaw1 said: UAS320Pilot is right on this one. The company could use the report as evidence of need, and perhaps any other union's failure to negotiate without good cause. An opposing union would then be left to poke holes in whatever facts or assumptions are relied upon in the report. Welcome to my world of fast-paced and adversarial litigation.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[D M G]

Glad to see the IAM sticking to their guns. How much more "painful" could it be for the IAM than the $13.10/hr they want the CWA to go down to? Thousands of jobs guaranteed to be gone too, no thanks. See you in BK court.

BTW, your comments in other threads regarding the company replacing the mechanics during a work stoppage (should it happen) won't work either. The FSA wouldn't cross the picket line like ALPA did in 1992, and if ordered back to work by a judge then I'm sure the FSA would 'work to rule.' Then it'll be painful for everyone.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Glazer must be on the payrole or accidently bought too many shares of stock!

Everyone is in on the conspiracy to destroy labor in this industry.

I believe the company had every intention of going into BK. They are all dragging their feet with these proposals.

Welcome to hell, Bronner. Your reputation will is quicky going down the shitster along with your $240 million. Couldn't happen to a nicer, more friendly fella with the BIG MOUTH, to persude our customers to book elsewhere.

[post="168313"][/post]​

PITbull, you're right I don't see how they can avoid Chapter 11. I think its pure fantasyland to think labor getting onboard is going to save the company from a filing. We need only to look back to August 2002 for what's going to happen. Wasn't labor encouraged to jump on the bandwagon to avoid Chapter 11? Of course they filed within a week of the last labor group jumping aboard. The crux of the matter is will the company pull out of Ch. 11? The odds are not good. The choices no matter where you look are grim and grimmer. I am a little disturbed by the tactics of a few posters on here that are using POW type threats to scare everyone. It's important to understand rational dialogue and not overkill does more to solve problems than threats.

 

[Justaramper]

If you are the CEO of a company that was having a tough time of it, wouldn't you be working 24/7 to get all sides together to get a deal done..? Instead we go to the newspapers and use that as a negotiating ploy.

Of course if I could show you how to save many $$$ on your monthly budget, wouldn't you want to try that..?

This is like a bad marriage and only one side wants to stay together, while the other side wants to play games. But it's not just U that is having this trouble, so is UA & DL

The plan for BK2 has been in the works for months and they are hell bent on going that way, so why even try to cooperate...

Looks like I'll be going to back to school sooner than I expected to..

 

[mweiss]

Everyone is in on the conspiracy to destroy labor in this industry.

[post="168313"][/post]​

Sounds rather paranoid to me. I know I'm not part of any conspiracy. I don't think PineyBob is. How about the AFA MEC? You think they're in on it?

FWIW, the bigger a conspiracy has to be, the less likely it will survive.

 

[ClueByFour]

Glazer must be on the payrole or accidently bought too many shares of stock!
[/b][/size]

[post="168313"][/post]​

Both. He was hired by ALPA.

ALPA's mainline numbers are declining, and the union is losing clout and money. Like similar accusations hurled by ALPA members at the IAM, it's particularly important to note that ALPA's interests are in keeping as many dues paying mainline pilots as possible employed at U, not looking out for the profession itself nor what is best for the members, individually or collectively.

Much as ALPA is being sued for abusing it's regional pilot groups, it will do anything possible to maintain the AAA group, even if that means trashing the profession and/or "recommending" things that are not in the pilot's best interests (I give you Pollack's behavior and letter as a perfect example).

 

[E-TRONS]

MW,

I believe the statement regarding the destruction of labor was aimed primarily at corporate america.

You have to admit the lack of urgency on UAIR's part. All sorts of talk and that's about all. Infact, aside from all the rhetorical clamor in the media what exactly has the management done to improve the operation? Bronner continues to alienate passengers with his idiocy and his mouth. Does that sound like someone that wants to truly make it work?

Like it or not it is a give and take situation. Not just take, take, take on UAIR's part. All we ever get are empty promises from this management....full of contingencies, etc. Show us something tangible for a change. Now that would be something new.

Sure the company is hurting. But even a simpleton grasps the concept that you get more flies with honey than you do with salt. We have MBA's and PhD's that have not a clue!!!! The state of current affairs proves this without debate.

After those several million dollar severance payments to Seigel and Cohen that lowered our profit in the 2Q, I say to hell with corporate america and their robber barrons!!!! If this company needs to go down to curtail this now acceptable practice of manipulation of labor laws and CBA's for corporate gain then SO BE IT.

BK2 has been UAIR's intention for quite some time. That is plain for all to see. So lets do it already and see what's left when the smoke clears.

 

[mweiss]

I believe the statement regarding the destruction of labor was aimed primarily at corporate america.

[post="168398"][/post]​

Even if it is, it's still false. There's no conspiracy. There doesn't have to be. It is simply the shared opinion of many corporate executives that it's better to cut costs by cutting wages. That they appear to be working toward the same goal points more to the seductiveness of the idea than to nefarious collaborative plotting.

 

[mwereplanes]

The simple fact is that this company is going into C11 again. With or without agreements from labor. It is folly for 320 or any other person to think an 1113, 14, 15 or whatever letter will guarantee a better outcome for any labor group.

The question is how the company will attempt to convince the judge that any negotiated agreements are too much of a burden. They will argue, IMHO, that since they could not get ALL the labor groups on board the agreements are too expensive and thus should be thrown out. See if that doesn't happen.

And that is when the 279 jet fleet will begin to shrink. That is when 320 will become a copilot as the company replaces more mainline flying with Mesa and the like. That is my scenario. The Glanzer report alluded a number of times how a smaller airline would have a better chance at profitability. My guess is that the ATSB would prefer that plan rather than seeing the company take on yet more debt by buying more jets for mainline operation. There are no guarantees inside C11. Regardless of what 320 says. The only thing that goes on there is deciding what is best for the debtors and shareholders. NOT the employees.


mr

 

[USA320Pilot]

Mwereplanes:

That's not what was discussed at the MEC meeting. Maybe you should attend a meeting to get the facts or are you to busy? By the way, US Airways does not want to add any more 50-seat RJ flying, did you miss that too?

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[mwereplanes]

My inside information comes from the MEC. As well as from within the company. Just like yours. I know intimately what went on at that meeting. From the source. And what went on in closed sessions. Intimately. From the source. All the details. From the source. I don't need to go to any meeting to know what went on there. For the record, Lakefield stated he was clear that the DC plan was off the table. Get it?

If you think this management is not going into C11 then you have not been paying attention. If you believe the Glanzer report (as I do) then you must believe it all. And if you read it again you will see where he mentions a smaller airline a number of times. And how he states that the ATSB would likely favor that plan.

US Airways will come out of C11 as a much different airline. IMHO, in my humble opinion, the transformation plan has very basic flaws. Glanzer said so. Read the report. The plan will be changed inside of C11. That is also my opinion. Projections, both revenue and cost, are not all that realistic. Glanzer said so. Read the report. His consistent referral to a smaller airline stood out like a sore thumb. Look at the end of page 13 and the beginning of page 14. You cannot ignore that.

Your incessant posting of just how bad a shape this company is in is meant to goad all labor groups into givebacks. Ain't gonna happen. ALPA will come to an agreement. And it will be put to a vote. And it will pass. But it won't prevent a C11 filing or the company attempting to renege on any 1113 letter. My scenario above stands. And the C11 trip WILL result in a mainline fleet of less than 279 jets. And you WILL become a copilot. To quote you "I don't like it but that is the reality".

You are about to get what you wanted from ALPA. And we are about to once again get a hosing inside C11. So will everyone else. But the airline will survive. And isn't that the goal? To live to fight another day?

mr

 

[robbedagain]

does the elimination of twenty cities out of pit sound like a good starter for what is to come? it sounds as though this airline will be smaller but a lot more profitable and most likely to be modeled after jb awa and swa. i believ that this airline will survive just a way bit smaller than what it is now. i cant say what the pay scale will be but i sure as heck hope it isnt the payscale that my coworkers and i have at my city have--13.00 an hr top scale. what will happen to midatlantic and the other express carriers if we go ch11 or should say when we file ch11?

 

[seeking the truth]

mwereplanes,
great post. I agree, the company is headed into bankruptcy again. Even if all unions agreed to everything the company wants.

IT's become more apparent as time has went on from the last filing. The employees were sacrificed through wages and benefits, yet the inefficient "MODEL " remained.

This company has basically hand fed the competition by alienating the customer base. Has not tried anything innovative, industry leading. Oh wait, GO FARES , that was innovative. So the company wanted the market and public to believe that it was. No innovation there. Just another REACTION to a well run company called Southwest