Notes from the AMFA 33 rally on 6-30

[Necrophilias]

I went with my neighbor (who is a NW striking mechanic) to the AMFA 33 rally at the Highland Park Pavilion on Friday. Friday was day #315 of the strike vs NW.

Trucks with the "Is NWA SAFE" message painted on the side marked the location. Banners, stickers and signs were also waved and distributed. Most of the strikers are working elsewhere now but many still pull picket duty.

If you think that the strikers are going to let go of this, GUESS AGAIN! There are a large number of striking mechanics who can't let go of this situation and what NW has done to them.

Ill feelings toward former AMFA mechanics who have crossed the picket line is a huge issue. The anger seems to have grown worse rather than passing. When someone has the feeling that they have nothing left to lose you don't know what to expect from the individual.

There was no mention of the strike ending. WOW! I suspect this situation will fester like like an oozing carbuncle. NOT A PRETTY THOUGHT!

Not being an AMFA member, I mostly listened tried to get a feel for where this is going. My conclusion is that I still don't know. The strikers are so angry that I don't know how to predict something like this.

I've assisted some of the strikers in gaining employment with my employer and they are very good employees. The problem is that there are so many strikers that more of us from the outside need to do this sort of thing.

I can't help feel bad for good employees who were locked out of there jobs. I can clearly understand their anger toward NW and SCABS.

My personal feeling is that given the current "concession craze" a good employee is better off moving on from NW anyway. This thought applies to both strikers and NON SCABS who are still working at NW.

If your employer is no longer contributing to your pension fund why would you want them to exist?

EMPLOYEES AND PASSENGERS MAY BE BETTER OFF IF NWA GOES OUT OF BUSINESS.

 

[Don Smith]

.... Friday was day #315 of the strike vs NW....

If you think that the strikers are going to let go of this, GUESS AGAIN! There are a large number of striking mechanics who can't let go of this situation and what NW has done to them.

Ill feelings toward former AMFA mechanics who have crossed the picket line is a huge issue. The anger seems to have grown worse rather than passing....
Not being an AMFA member, I mostly listened tried to get a feel for where this is going. My conclusion is that I still don't know. The strikers are so angry that I don't know how to predict something like this.

I've assisted some of the strikers in gaining employment with my employer and they are very good employees. The problem is that there are so many strikers that more of us from the outside need to do this sort of thing.

I can't help feel bad for good employees who were locked out of there jobs. I can clearly understand their anger toward NW and SCABS.

My personal feeling is that given the current "concession craze" a good employee is better off moving on from NW anyway. This thought applies to both strikers and NON SCABS who are still working at NW.

If your employer is no longer contributing to your pension fund why would you want them to exist?

Thanks for this post Necrophilias...I know of several of my fellow strikers in DTW that, even though they have other jobs, they still pull a picket duty. Yes they are angry. Men with 17+ years of seniority just can't "let it go". I know I certainly can't.
As far as "where this is going"? Who knows. We (strikers) have to keep vigilant, if not on the picket line proper, then in our conversations with friends and family members in telling them to avoid flying on nwa.
Thanks for your efforts in finding employment for the strikers. I too am in a position now where I can recommend good men for jobs with my current employer.
You're correct about the pay scale and the concession craze...nwa is no longer contributing to any pensions so why take the reduced pay? Vacation is now reduced so it is like starting over. That is my situation now and even though I'm starting over I am much happier not having the oppressive rules and management dictators on my back on everything from vacation to sick time that I did at nwa.
Keep fighting MECHANICS. Seek other employment but stay appraised of our strike situation. There are jobs out there right now. I found one and so can you. It'll be tough for awhile but we've had it tough before and we will get over this.
Thanks again Necro.. for the post!

 

[jenny@nw]

I went with my neighbor (who is a NW striking mechanic) to the AMFA 33 rally at the Highland Park Pavilion on Friday. Friday was day #315 of the strike vs NW.

Trucks with the "Is NWA SAFE" message painted on the side marked the location. Banners, stickers and signs were also waved and distributed. Most of the strikers are working elsewhere now but many still pull picket duty.

If you think that the strikers are going to let go of this, GUESS AGAIN! There are a large number of striking mechanics who can't let go of this situation and what NW has done to them.

Ill feelings toward former AMFA mechanics who have crossed the picket line is a huge issue. The anger seems to have grown worse rather than passing. When someone has the feeling that they have nothing left to lose you don't know what to expect from the individual.

There was no mention of the strike ending. WOW! I suspect this situation will fester like like an oozing carbuncle. NOT A PRETTY THOUGHT!

Not being an AMFA member, I mostly listened tried to get a feel for where this is going. My conclusion is that I still don't know. The strikers are so angry that I don't know how to predict something like this.

I've assisted some of the strikers in gaining employment with my employer and they are very good employees. The problem is that there are so many strikers that more of us from the outside need to do this sort of thing.

I can't help feel bad for good employees who were locked out of there jobs. I can clearly understand their anger toward NW and SCABS.

My personal feeling is that given the current "concession craze" a good employee is better off moving on from NW anyway. This thought applies to both strikers and NON SCABS who are still working at NW.

If your employer is no longer contributing to your pension fund why would you want them to exist?

EMPLOYEES AND PASSENGERS MAY BE BETTER OFF IF NWA GOES OUT OF BUSINESS.

Much debate with friends and after going through some beer and food, I came to the ultimate conclusion myself that the company is INDEED at FAULT- not the union like all these other people (LIKE SCABS) are boo hooing about. Argument was plausable but this was their plan to PUSH the mechanics to strike. Set an example for the rest.... like in one of the PFAA negotiation meetings, the NWA person proclaimed "YOU'RE NEXT!"

They sucessfully got the workgroups divided so that it was much easier to conquer little by little.

There was a rather large meeting with all the managers prior to this. Their 18 month plan. I personally know someone that started a side business that can contract out jobs with northworst. He wasn't suppose to tell me this but it trickled out after a few shots. How nasty. This person is not my friend anymore.

All and all this was a nice ride down. Pretty soon I'll be back to looking at books, punching in numbers in computers, dealing with all these agencies and schedueling people again if I havent done so already ( I do know NW and OTHERS lurk here so I am being vauge)

I'm sorry to all those who I ran my mouth at. Just like a typical woman,(or rather typical ME) sometimes those mood swings go sky high. (being Irish?) I am fortunate enough through all this that I had met my better half through work.

I do support AMFA one way or another, PFAA is another creature. However- I don't understand this momentum going on with AFA and PFAA. Now I found out I got lied to by AFA... so can I retract my NMB vote? Nope. I hope at least one group gets at least 51%. I think AFA will win after their 3 rd try. People are led to believe PFAA is worhtless. I wonder what the rest of the populous will say when AFA says "this is the best we could do" to a sh##ty imposed contract?

I'm glad that like Nechrophillia says, most people had found good jobs. Everyone I know found a happy ending. Don't think that even with 17-25 yrs working there they are going back. No one wants to get jerked around by this company again. Good luck to y'all. I'm hanging up my wings too. I'm not too thrilled that I represent a company that presents dirty airplanes (with contract cleaners), planes with inop everything (with scabanics) while other airlines are more successful while serving a better product.
Being a marketable representative of the company, it is embarassing to be presenting this to customers and it is beyond my control.


Whine and prove to me with all the facts and reports, I know from working as a manager to a small store accountant people who do lousy typically figure out a way to fudge the numbers. So I don't even know if any of these numbers are actually accurate. Inaccuarcy in all this usually leads to failure. I really think this is a very flawed plan.

end of my :rant:

 

[Necrophilias]

Jenny and Don,

Thank you for sharing your observations and views. These seem to be the most centered messages on topic that I've read here in sometime.

 

[robbedagain]

that is an excellent post Jenny and Necro. Although I work for a US EXP carrier, I know that you folks, in particular the mechanics--AMFA--went through a living hell. There are better jobs out there than SCAB AIR. I cant wait till this upcoming school yr is finished so my 4yr old son and I can move to Baltimore area and land a better paying better benefit job! Good luck to all you AMFA mechanics that are on strike. Good luck to all the rest of you unionized employees, especially the F/As right now. I'd say go on strike and shut down SCAB AIR. I dont recommend SCAB AIR to anyone I know. Keep up that vigil on the striking lines!

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

Much debate with friends and after going through some beer and food, I came to the ultimate conclusion myself that the company is INDEED at FAULT- not the union like all these other people (LIKE SCABS) are boo hooing about. Argument was plausable but this was their plan to PUSH the mechanics to strike. Set an example for the rest.... like in one of the PFAA negotiation meetings, the NWA person proclaimed "YOU'RE NEXT!"

They sucessfully got the workgroups divided so that it was much easier to conquer little by little.

There was a rather large meeting with all the managers prior to this. Their 18 month plan. I personally know someone that started a side business that can contract out jobs with northworst. He wasn't suppose to tell me this but it trickled out after a few shots. How nasty. This person is not my friend anymore.

All and all this was a nice ride down. Pretty soon I'll be back to looking at books, punching in numbers in computers, dealing with all these agencies and schedueling people again if I havent done so already ( I do know NW and OTHERS lurk here so I am being vauge)

I'm sorry to all those who I ran my mouth at. Just like a typical woman,(or rather typical ME) sometimes those mood swings go sky high. (being Irish?) I am fortunate enough through all this that I had met my better half through work.

I do support AMFA one way or another, PFAA is another creature. However- I don't understand this momentum going on with AFA and PFAA. Now I found out I got lied to by AFA... so can I retract my NMB vote? Nope. I hope at least one group gets at least 51%. I think AFA will win after their 3 rd try. People are led to believe PFAA is worhtless. I wonder what the rest of the populous will say when AFA says "this is the best we could do" to a sh##ty imposed contract?

I'm glad that like Nechrophillia says, most people had found good jobs. Everyone I know found a happy ending. Don't think that even with 17-25 yrs working there they are going back. No one wants to get jerked around by this company again. Good luck to y'all. I'm hanging up my wings too. I'm not too thrilled that I represent a company that presents dirty airplanes (with contract cleaners), planes with inop everything (with scabanics) while other airlines are more successful while serving a better product.
Being a marketable representative of the company, it is embarassing to be presenting this to customers and it is beyond my control.
Whine and prove to me with all the facts and reports, I know from working as a manager to a small store accountant people who do lousy typically figure out a way to fudge the numbers. So I don't even know if any of these numbers are actually accurate. Inaccuarcy in all this usually leads to failure. I really think this is a very flawed plan.

end of my :rant:

Well said, Jenny. While some points I may disagree on , I do appreciate the well articulated manner which you used. I do agree that NWA wants to replace the FA's. For what its worth, I have very little negative to say about any of my encounters with NWA FA's these last few months. Almost to an individual, they have been polite, helpful, and professional. It may be hard to believe coming from the "enemy" as it were, but I do wish all of you all the best.

 

[jenny@nw]

Well said, Jenny. While some points I may disagree on , I do appreciate the well articulated manner which you used. I do agree that NWA wants to replace the FA's. For what its worth, I have very little negative to say about any of my encounters with NWA FA's these last few months. Almost to an individual, they have been polite, helpful, and professional. It may be hard to believe coming from the "enemy" as it were, but I do wish all of you all the best.

Don't agree with it? It's the truth. Company pushed them out. You guys made the problem worse, not for the MX but every middle class person in the country.

One Hospital had nurses going on strike. Hospital says "we got replacement nurses". Nurses are only arguing about how many nurses per patient they would like in their next contract. So now they have a skeleton staff of scab nurses in one particular hospital and it is an accident waiting to happen. Same type of problem but different job and work enviroment.

Thanks alot.

 

[Necrophilias]

Don't agree with it? It's the truth. Company pushed them out. You guys made the problem worse, not for the MX but every middle class person in the country.

One Hospital had nurses going on strike. Hospital says "we got replacement nurses". Nurses are only arguing about how many nurses per patient they would like in their next contract. So now they have a skeleton staff of scab nurses in one particular hospital and it is an accident waiting to happen. Same type of problem but different job and work enviroment.

Thanks alot.

Let me take a deep breath...AHHH. OK, now I can be civil.

Denial is a staple of a SCAB'S self validation. Such Truth as you offer is too much for someone who is in denial. The delusionary thought process of a SCAB will never be able to reason with the truth that you offer.

More people who post messages on this website need to read the excellent dose of reality offered by Jenny. Union busting and SCABS are a problem for ALL middle class citizens.

SCABS, sexual preditors and airline executives are people who have exited any sort of human existance.

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

Let me take a deep breath...AHHH. OK, now I can be civil.

Denial is a staple of a SCAB'S self validation. Such Truth as you offer is too much for someone who is in denial. The delusionary thought process of a SCAB will never be able to reason with the truth that you offer.

More people who post messages on this website need to read the excellent dose of reality offered by Jenny. Union busting and SCABS are a problem for ALL middle class citizens.

SCABS, sexual preditors and airline executives are people who have exited any sort of human existance.

So then, do you share hackman's belief that the act of crossing a picket line is no less evil than the brutal assault of a five year old? Or do you disagree with hackman, and only made that comparison in a sad attempt to generate hatred?
(by the way, I believe I said I disagreed with only SOME of Jenny's post. Most was right on, IMO.)

 

[Hackman]

So then, do you share hackman's belief that the act of crossing a picket line is no less evil than the brutal assault of a five year old? Or do you disagree with hackman, and only made that comparison in a sad attempt to generate hatred?
(by the way, I believe I said I disagreed with only SOME of Jenny's post. Most was right on, IMO.)

That's not what I said scab, and I don't appreciate you stating that I did. Again, I stated that the DEMENTED mind set is the same.

That is... NO REGARD FOR THOSE WORKERS WHO YOU DISPARAGE BY ASSISTING IN THE DESTRUCTION OF FAMILIES AND LIVLIHOODS.

If you want to start twisting statements, I will engage as far as you want to go, and then some. :angry:

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

That's not what I said scab, and I don't appreciate you stating that I did. Again, I stated that the DEMENTED mind set is the same.

That is... NO REGARD FOR THOSE WORKERS WHO YOU DISPARAGE BY ASSISTING IN THE DESTRUCTION OF FAMILIES AND LIVLIHOODS.

If you want to start twisting statements, I will engage as far as you want to go, and then some. :angry:

I believe the words you used were "moral equivilant". So, were you lying then, or are you lying now?

 

[finman]

That's not what I said scab, and I don't appreciate you stating that I did. Again, I stated that the DEMENTED mind set is the same.

So thinking about violating a five year old is the same as thinking about crossing the picket line of a union that you don't even belong to? It's just when thought becomes action that the child rape becomes worse than crossing the picket line? Please verify that I'm understanding you correctly.

 

[Don Smith]

Now boys!!! Lets behave.
When a labor group is in a legal action against an employer for wages or benefits or work rules or (as in the case of nwa) the right to work, anyone who circumnvents that process creates sometimes a significant amount of ill will between them and the labor group.
When someone on this board says that a SCAB undermines the collective bargaining process specifically the bargaining in good faith, that is a TRUE statement. The fact that nwa itself uses the "bargaining in good faith" language and then stoops to undermining the process shows all of us their true intentions. The TRUTH can be gleaned from actions.
I wouldn't shoot a SCAB but I temper that statement with this information that I did not grow up in a family of opressed coal miners. Their history of strikes is alot different than my family history of strikes. My father worked for a company that truely bargained in good faith. When they did strike they knew that replacement SCABs were not coming in behind them.
I also wouldn't shoot a child molester but then again I'm not in that situation. While I find child molesters repugnant and evil I personally have not had to deal with one yet. I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it.
So while child molesters are evil I have found that SCABS are mislead and stupid. Lacking the common sense to see that their actions are harming ALL workers in a non-management role in ALL businesses.

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

Now boys!!! Lets behave.
When a labor group is in a legal action against an employer for wages or benefits or work rules or (as in the case of nwa) the right to work, anyone who circumnvents that process creates sometimes a significant amount of ill will between them and the labor group.
When someone on this board says that a SCAB undermines the collective bargaining process specifically the bargaining in good faith, that is a TRUE statement. The fact that nwa itself uses the "bargaining in good faith" language and then stoops to undermining the process shows all of us their true intentions. The TRUTH can be gleaned from actions.
I wouldn't shoot a SCAB but I temper that statement with this information that I did not grow up in a family of opressed coal miners. Their history of strikes is alot different than my family history of strikes. My father worked for a company that truely bargained in good faith. When they did strike they knew that replacement SCABs were not coming in behind them.
I also wouldn't shoot a child molester but then again I'm not in that situation. While I find child molesters repugnant and evil I personally have not had to deal with one yet. I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it.
So while child molesters are evil I have found that SCABS are mislead and stupid. Lacking the common sense to see that their actions are harming ALL workers in a non-management role in ALL businesses.

Very well stated. I find no fault with your post. I do have one question, however, regarding the term "bargaining in good faith" . If NWA did indeed do all in its power to hide the fact that we replacements were standing by, then I believe, from a moral point at least, you are correct in saying that nwa did not bargain in good faith. I was lead to believe, however, that it was widely known that we were indeed being prepared to replace the strikers. I dont see that as bad faith by NWA, rather bad planning by AMFA. The situation as I see it was thus: Amfa states that the new terms are unaccepteble, and if imposed will result in a strike. Fair enough, and in good faith. Nwa states that if AMFA strikes, they will be replaced. Also fair enough and also in good faith. Both sides carried out thier stated goals. Both take considerable lumps in the ensuing battle. NWA, however, appears to be winning. Not by a knock out, but by decision. This is,in my opinion, primarily due to MUCH better planning and execution. While the ethics and morals of BOTH sides are indeed in question, the LEGALITY of it appears to be quite clear. We could debate the moral issues of crossing a picket line Ad Nausium, but, as far as I know, both sides are indeed operating within thier rights. I will admit, however, that such matters are well indeed above my pay grade, so I will leave further comments to those who specialise in such.
At any rate, you made some good points and I commend you for it.
Best wishes,
CG.

 

[jenny@nw]

That's not what I said scab, and I don't appreciate you stating that I did. Again, I stated that the DEMENTED mind set is the same.

That is... NO REGARD FOR THOSE WORKERS WHO YOU DISPARAGE BY ASSISTING IN THE DESTRUCTION OF FAMILIES AND LIVLIHOODS.

If you want to start twisting statements, I will engage as far as you want to go, and then some. :angry:

I'm glad you wrote because I know that is not what you said.