Last week a group from NWA went to CLT to look over U''s A330s, their training and maintenance programs. At the time there was an A330 in the hangar with delamination on an engine cowling. A U mechanic who approached the NWA group was told that NWA really liked U''s A330. Anyone hear what the result of this visit was?
NWA looking at U''s A330s
- Thread starter Steiner
- Start date
FrugalFlyer
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 254
- 0
The vultures are circling .....
this explains why cf6's will soon come to PIT FAB.
279-245=34
how many 57's we got?
how many 67's in mojave?
how many 330's?
34 a/c to go?
davey said either 67's or 330's one or the other in PIT hangar show shortly after ch 11.
heard 330 capt's make more than 747 pilots.also heard 330's can't carry full load pax and full cargo load.
could be good way to reduce costs all around?
getting down to the nitty gritty here....davey soon to have his finest hour....
any input chip?
279-245=34
how many 57's we got?
how many 67's in mojave?
how many 330's?
34 a/c to go?
davey said either 67's or 330's one or the other in PIT hangar show shortly after ch 11.
heard 330 capt's make more than 747 pilots.also heard 330's can't carry full load pax and full cargo load.
could be good way to reduce costs all around?
getting down to the nitty gritty here....davey soon to have his finest hour....
any input chip?
Don't look upon this as the Vultures Circling.
Look at this , as a chance to make some sense out of a bad plan to begin with.
The A330's are an impossible plane to keep supported. This is true in terms of both Domestic and Overseas operations too.
Should we have a chance to unload the A330's? We should jump all over it!! B767-300's are sitting in the desert with CF-6 Engines on them , that we can lease very cheaply....and have no learning or support curve issues with at all.
It's painfully obvious that we will not be growing the A330 fleet at anything looking like the near future..or ditching the B767-200ER's...So seeking commonality and an aircraft with a well built support network makes good sense for us. The logic was there in the beginning..but the leasing options weren't....Nows the time to strike on this issue.
The A330...is not going to make or break our International operation on it's own accord..but keeping it , is eating away out our price of overall operations. 1 Type of Acft is the only way to go for us.
The sale of the planes, tooling and spare parts will be a great plus for U....only as long as it's tied to picking up additional B767's that we can support with current training and support mechanisms in place.
Look at this , as a chance to make some sense out of a bad plan to begin with.
The A330's are an impossible plane to keep supported. This is true in terms of both Domestic and Overseas operations too.
Should we have a chance to unload the A330's? We should jump all over it!! B767-300's are sitting in the desert with CF-6 Engines on them , that we can lease very cheaply....and have no learning or support curve issues with at all.
It's painfully obvious that we will not be growing the A330 fleet at anything looking like the near future..or ditching the B767-200ER's...So seeking commonality and an aircraft with a well built support network makes good sense for us. The logic was there in the beginning..but the leasing options weren't....Nows the time to strike on this issue.
The A330...is not going to make or break our International operation on it's own accord..but keeping it , is eating away out our price of overall operations. 1 Type of Acft is the only way to go for us.
The sale of the planes, tooling and spare parts will be a great plus for U....only as long as it's tied to picking up additional B767's that we can support with current training and support mechanisms in place.
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On 11/24/2002 7
42 PM FrugalFlyer wrote:
AOG-N-IT: I hope that it is not vultures circling, but that's what it looks like. Some questions for you (and others) though:
What's the issue/problem with the A330? Is it just the lack of product support from Airbus or are there other operational issues/problesm as well?
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It's entirely support related issues!! Airbus is blistering us...and all the Sub-Contracted Vendor items like Avionics and Computers , has us in a constant strangle-hold.
Pilots have a great point of view..from the flying end of things...but they never ever see what it takes to insure a plane ready to fly...or the related costs to do so.
The A330 has almost Zero domestic support..un-less you call Borrows and Purchases from AC affective? , which it isn't!! The A330 is no better regarding support on it's native European soil either. I can draw Boeing support from almost anywhere on earth....I can;t say the same about the Airbus!!..nor can any of my counterparts!! Newer and Bigger does not equate to better..or more profitable!!
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On 11/24/2002 7
42 PM FrugalFlyer wrote: AOG-N-IT: I hope that it is not vultures circling, but that's what it looks like. Some questions for you (and others) though:
What's the issue/problem with the A330? Is it just the lack of product support from Airbus or are there other operational issues/problesm as well?
----------------
[/blockquote]
It's entirely support related issues!! Airbus is blistering us...and all the Sub-Contracted Vendor items like Avionics and Computers , has us in a constant strangle-hold.
Pilots have a great point of view..from the flying end of things...but they never ever see what it takes to insure a plane ready to fly...or the related costs to do so.
The A330 has almost Zero domestic support..un-less you call Borrows and Purchases from AC affective? , which it isn't!! The A330 is no better regarding support on it's native European soil either. I can draw Boeing support from almost anywhere on earth....I can;t say the same about the Airbus!!..nor can any of my counterparts!! Newer and Bigger does not equate to better..or more profitable!!
FrugalFlyer
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 254
- 0
AOG-N-IT: I hope that it is not vultures circling, but that's what it looks like. Some questions for you (and others) though:
What's the issue/problem with the A330? Is it just the lack of product support from Airbus or are there other operational issues/problesm as well?
What's the issue/problem with the A330? Is it just the lack of product support from Airbus or are there other operational issues/problesm as well?
DELLDUDE,
Our current A330-300 Fleet Count is 9
Our current B767-200ER Fleet Count is 11
The Asiana B767-300's available with the CF-6's in the desert is 12. Others are available..but would create an Engine Type Mis-match that would not bid well for us.
The current B757-200 Fleet is 34...31 Active..with 609AU still being shown in short term storage..but being readied for a quick return to service as of now...The March return has been shelved. We still have 615/616AU parked in MHV too.
I have gone on record numerous time as being a strong advocate of a 1 Type wide-body fleet for International Ops...If this same approach benefits Low Cost Domestic Carriers.how could it not help us too? Simply put...We have everything to gain by ridding ourselves of the A330-300's....even Dave knows it!!...or it would have never been mentioned in the CLT Roadshow in September.
This is a great chance to exercise some common sense...I hope we take full advantage of the door being open. he benefits are beyond calculation in the long term aspect.
The departure of the A330's P&W 4168 Engine will not draw any tears either...Viva La CF-6!!
Our current A330-300 Fleet Count is 9
Our current B767-200ER Fleet Count is 11
The Asiana B767-300's available with the CF-6's in the desert is 12. Others are available..but would create an Engine Type Mis-match that would not bid well for us.
The current B757-200 Fleet is 34...31 Active..with 609AU still being shown in short term storage..but being readied for a quick return to service as of now...The March return has been shelved. We still have 615/616AU parked in MHV too.
I have gone on record numerous time as being a strong advocate of a 1 Type wide-body fleet for International Ops...If this same approach benefits Low Cost Domestic Carriers.how could it not help us too? Simply put...We have everything to gain by ridding ourselves of the A330-300's....even Dave knows it!!...or it would have never been mentioned in the CLT Roadshow in September.
This is a great chance to exercise some common sense...I hope we take full advantage of the door being open. he benefits are beyond calculation in the long term aspect.
The departure of the A330's P&W 4168 Engine will not draw any tears either...Viva La CF-6!!
As someone who has flown and typed in the 737,767 and A330 as well as 319,320,321 ...I can say without a doubt if we HAD to get rid of one type it would be the 767. The A330 fly's faster for less fuel and hauls almost as much cargo as a 747. And a lot of the parts are common with other airbus stuff and since we seem to favor Airbus these days...it's the only way to go.
C
chipmunn
Guest
[FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]AOG-N-IT's comments are 100 percent accurate.[BR][BR]I recently talked with Dave Siegel on this topic and he said he would like to rationalize the widebody fleet type. Dave said the B767-200ERs work quit well in our network. In addition, he talked about the Asiana B767-300ER's and indicated we could get 13 of these aircraft to replace the A330s. I then said that would give US 24 B767s and he said, we might do that.[BR][BR]Delldude, Airbus wide and narrowbody took extra W-2 cuts and lost their override in the new restructuring agreement. An A330 pilot makes about 10 percent more than a B767 pilot, but it's now much less than other large widebody industry pay rates. [BR][BR]Chip[/FONT]
Exjetgirl, Your perception is based entirely on looks....looks from a interior cosmetic and exterior appearance standpoint can easily be resolved. The cost of operating , training , staffing and stocking everything for 2 seperate fleet types borders on insanity.....and adds to the draw on profits being achieved.
Just to let you know...Our B767-200ER's are among the youngest in the industry....and they wear like an iron glove. Cosmetics are the very very least of our concerns. It's Cost Vs. Function....and our Boeing Wide-Bodies really get that done nicely......The A330 is eating away at our bottom line from a number of perspectives.....So rather than continue to collapse like a wet paper bag....We need all 11 -200ER's going....plus whatever Dave can negotiate on the Asiana Acft available.
I have written Dave privately regarding this subject....and the only possible negative that can come from this is.....If thier Avionics package differs from our current fleet of 767's? Even if it does? It would be small potato's compaired to the boone-doogle that two entirely different fleet and engine types present.
Streamlining everything works....case in point WN / Jetblue..and AirTran. Simplification keeps it real.....and God knows we need to be doing exactly that.....Stylish isn't making any points at all!!
Thanks for the back-up Chip!!.....We need a big dose of logic!!......and damn quick too!!
Just to let you know...Our B767-200ER's are among the youngest in the industry....and they wear like an iron glove. Cosmetics are the very very least of our concerns. It's Cost Vs. Function....and our Boeing Wide-Bodies really get that done nicely......The A330 is eating away at our bottom line from a number of perspectives.....So rather than continue to collapse like a wet paper bag....We need all 11 -200ER's going....plus whatever Dave can negotiate on the Asiana Acft available.
I have written Dave privately regarding this subject....and the only possible negative that can come from this is.....If thier Avionics package differs from our current fleet of 767's? Even if it does? It would be small potato's compaired to the boone-doogle that two entirely different fleet and engine types present.
Streamlining everything works....case in point WN / Jetblue..and AirTran. Simplification keeps it real.....and God knows we need to be doing exactly that.....Stylish isn't making any points at all!!
Thanks for the back-up Chip!!.....We need a big dose of logic!!......and damn quick too!!
Chip,[BR]He should ditch the current 767s and get the 300's from Asiana, that would be a good move. However, from a passenger stand-point, US Airways' A330's are far superior to the current fleet of 767s, which sadly are starting to look their age and thensome. For US to keep the old 767's and sell off the A330's would be a huge mistake.
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On 11/24/2002 9:36:05 PM autofixer wrote:
Doesn't NWA have a large A330 order in? If so, exjetgurl is most likly correct...it is just a fact finding mission to see how U operates the 330.
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I hate to help shoot down a good rumor, but PM autofixer is correct. Word here is that it was an orientation visit arranged by Airbus in preparation for delivery of NWA's A330s next Summer.
Best of luck.
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On 11/24/2002 9:36:05 PM autofixer wrote:
Doesn't NWA have a large A330 order in? If so, exjetgurl is most likly correct...it is just a fact finding mission to see how U operates the 330.
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[/blockquote]
I hate to help shoot down a good rumor, but PM autofixer is correct. Word here is that it was an orientation visit arranged by Airbus in preparation for delivery of NWA's A330s next Summer.
Best of luck.
Sir....beyond the landing light bulbs....You could not be more wrong!! The A330 shares nothing in common with any of the narrow body Airbus types....nor does it share any commonality with the A300 /310 Series. Actually there is enough differences between systems on the A321 Vs. the 319/320's to create problems on occasion too Check maintenance in LAX has proven that point , too many times The Landing Gear is a standout difference between the A321 and its 320/319 brethren. We get calls from other Airbus operators hourly , in hopes of finding something common...and it frankly never happens!!....ask FedEx or AA for a quick reference example.
Our only North American based dancing partner for the A330 is Air Canada....and we pay through the nose for that!!..as do they , only less often!!
Commonality is between the A330 and 340 Series....and due to engine configurations , that has more than a few limiting factors too. Those factors are something that we at U can Ill-afford for another moment. We are paying heavy dues for Wolf's attempts at being stylish.....remember it was a polish us up for a sell off plan that landed us in this fix. This was not a plan with pro-longed staying power behind it for a scant second.
Wolf may not have had a Plan B....but I hope to heck that Dave is not influenced by those of you....with only perception based opinions to aid in directing our futures. The off-set in Leasing rates...Logistics and Training costs will make the A330....nothing but a bad memory....Should Logic take presedence of perception?.......I hope you folks can live with perceptions fall-out....should your way win out over mine?
Then we can all be looking for another career....or Type-Rating to boast about....just somewhere else using it .
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Our only North American based dancing partner for the A330 is Air Canada....and we pay through the nose for that!!..as do they , only less often!!
Commonality is between the A330 and 340 Series....and due to engine configurations , that has more than a few limiting factors too. Those factors are something that we at U can Ill-afford for another moment. We are paying heavy dues for Wolf's attempts at being stylish.....remember it was a polish us up for a sell off plan that landed us in this fix. This was not a plan with pro-longed staying power behind it for a scant second.
Wolf may not have had a Plan B....but I hope to heck that Dave is not influenced by those of you....with only perception based opinions to aid in directing our futures. The off-set in Leasing rates...Logistics and Training costs will make the A330....nothing but a bad memory....Should Logic take presedence of perception?.......I hope you folks can live with perceptions fall-out....should your way win out over mine?
Then we can all be looking for another career....or Type-Rating to boast about....just somewhere else using it .
