OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

That was a Chinese knock-off piece of ####. It should have read "I sent Marty 5 mill and all the eastholios got were broken promises!"

Language barrier thing but its been straightened out.

Postmarked Tempe. Nothing gets done right the first time in that town, huh?

 

[Pi brat]

Why don't you form your own union and have a card drive? The Uhaul United Unionists for Universal Unity. Feel free to use that.

 

[traderjake]

What would you approve of being sent out? The Kirby, with no scope? Anything Parker wanted to? What?

I approved the MOU, the BPR didn't.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

"The draft opinion on the 3% contains troubling factual errors, inconsistencies, and an apparent misunderstanding of the question raised."

Go get em' tiger! Compass Correction rules!

Greeter (tongue in cheek)

 

[Pi brat]

I approved the MOU, the BPR didn't.

Not following you there trader.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Our world in 2.5 years:
The AMR "merger" has taken place, and we are operating as three distinct pilot groups. East, PHX, and APA. A representational election has indeed finally been called, but the forgone conclusion is APA will be the surviving union.
Since no union transition was negotiated with the APA guys (things turned really ugly when they realized we had no seat at the table/read no MOU) the entire USAPA structure is starting to crumble. Committee members are worried about their last union paycheck will bounce, so they are simply going back to the line. In fact, the "plan" is for everyone to simply walk away when the election is lost. Your aircraft APA!
The investment bankers we hired initially seemed to do a good job, but the brutal realities of us not being included in anything merger has limited their abilities to help us at all. We spent over 2M up front, and they are now suing us claiming we hired them knowing full well we had now chance of success with no MOU.
We can no longer afford a full legal team, union funds have dropped below the 2M mark. We have to direct all our funds to the M/B process.
M/B has turned out to be a nightmare. Untested and challenged on every turn by Leonidas, the timeline has fallen apart due to legal filings in numerous venues. Even the Company has litigation pending. The Company and APA (both with seats at the M/B table) are working against us. The Company and APA are proposing a "paycheck" based integration, with parts of Nic and 4:1 narrowbody ratios favoring APA. The Company, APA, and the world's largest airline are against us, while offering us large pay raises. The arbitrator shakes his head and will soon rule against our interests.
Both the East and West are enjoying the protections granted under LOA's 93 and 95. Min fleets remain the same, but East widebodies are being replaced with narrowbodies, and international flying is all going to APA. East pilots in group II remain at $124/hr, having lost individually almost 200K in the last three years had they taken the MOU. Health care costs are now over 2K/month per family. A turkey and Swiss in the airport is now $15.
Dave Ciabattoni and the Grievance team (using a local CLT lawyer; we are out of moneys) continue to grieve the Change of Control language. The code share case has already been decided against us by the arbitrator. Dave and our team are going to executive session in challenge of "errors, inconsistencies, and an apparent misunderstanding of the question raised."
There is some growth above min fleet on the East, and even in PHX, as small narrowbodies continue to pour into the bases. Attrition is now only getting above 200/year, but as before, not a single pilot is leaving early, unless on a gurney. Growth at AMR (read APA) is small but steady. Their International flying is growing as they take new widebodies and ours are parked or sold. They are hiring about one NEW pilot day, as M/B drags on. The mediator tells us that the growth at APA, and our low pay will work against us in arbitration. We walk out on him in the last session, and the CLT reps hold a rally in the CLT food court.

Greeter

 

[Keroseneuser]

Our world in 2.5 years:
The AMR "merger" has taken place, and we are operating as three distinct pilot groups. East, PHX, and APA. A representational election has indeed finally been called, but the forgone conclusion is APA will be the surviving union.
Since no union transition was negotiated with the APA guys (things turned really ugly when they realized we had no seat at the table/read no MOU) the entire USAPA structure is starting to crumble. Committee members are worried about their last union paycheck will bounce, so they are simply going back to the line. In fact, the "plan" is for everyone to simply walk away when the election is lost. Your aircraft APA!
The investment bankers we hired initially seemed to do a good job, but the brutal realities of us not being included in anything merger has limited their abilities to help us at all. We spent over 2M up front, and they are now suing us claiming we hired them knowing full well we had now chance of success with no MOU.
We can no longer afford a full legal team, union funds have dropped below the 2M mark. We have to direct all our funds to the M/B process.
M/B has turned out to be a nightmare. Untested and challenged on every turn by Leonidas, the timeline has fallen apart due to legal filings in numerous venues. Even the Company has litigation pending. The Company and APA (both with seats at the M/B table) are working against us. The Company and APA are proposing a "paycheck" based integration, with parts of Nic and 4:1 narrowbody ratios favoring APA. The Company, APA, and the world's largest airline are against us, while offering us large pay raises. The arbitrator shakes his head and will soon rule against our interests.
Both the East and West are enjoying the protections granted under LOA's 93 and 95. Min fleets remain the same, but East widebodies are being replaced with narrowbodies, and international flying is all going to APA. East pilots in group II remain at $124/hr, having lost individually almost 200K in the last three years had they taken the MOU. Health care costs are now over 2K/month per family. A turkey and Swiss in the airport is now $15.
Dave Ciabattoni and the Grievance team (using a local CLT lawyer; we are out of moneys) continue to grieve the Change of Control language. The code share case has already been decided against us by the arbitrator. Dave and our team are going to executive session in challenge of "errors, inconsistencies, and an apparent misunderstanding of the question raised."
There is some growth above min fleet on the East, and even in PHX, as small narrowbodies continue to pour into the bases. Attrition is now only getting above 200/year, but as before, not a single pilot is leaving early, unless on a gurney. Growth at AMR (read APA) is small but steady. Their International flying is growing as they take new widebodies and ours are parked or sold. They are hiring about one NEW pilot day, as M/B drags on. The mediator tells us that the growth at APA, and our low pay will work against us in arbitration. We walk out on him in the last session, and the CLT reps hold a rally in the CLT food court.

Greeter

You forgot the west contingent picketing the APA headquarters holding signs saying "NIC or Nothing"....and there is probably somebody lurking around with a yellow lanyard on, Chip will most likely be mass mailing the APA pilots telling them how it should be done, The AOL crowd will be chanting DFR DFR DFR, The APA furloughees will be demanding their DOH, The west furloughees will be demanding a captains seat, Somebody will be passing out flyers with a recall effort going against some set of reps somewhere, the company will be calling in large numbers of pilots for "Chief Pilot informational sessions", there will be yet another flyer discussing the finer points of when to start or not start the APU and the second engine, The Compass correction having been renamed the everything correction committee will be sending out mass e-mail, And Doug will be laughing so hard tears will be rolling off his cheeks!

 

[Move2CLT]

Why don't you form your own union and have a card drive? The Uhaul United Unionists for Universal Unity. Feel free to use that.

I'm just gonna call it hairPi.

Figure I'll get a thousand on the name alone.

 

[Move2CLT]

We walk out on him in the last session, and the CLT reps hold a rally in the CLT food court.

Greeter

And go on to vote in yet another union subsequently dubbed APAPA which promises a contract in under 30 days.

And the easties fall for it yet again.

 

[cleardirect]

You forgot the west contingent picketing the APA headquarters holding signs saying "NIC or Nothing"....and there is probably somebody lurking around with a yellow lanyard on, Chip will most likely be mass mailing the APA pilots telling them how it should be done, The AOL crowd will be chanting DFR DFR DFR, The APA furloughees will be demanding their DOH, The west furloughees will be demanding a captains seat, Somebody will be passing out flyers with a recall effort going against some set of reps somewhere, the company will be calling in large numbers of pilots for "Chief Pilot informational sessions", there will be yet another flyer discussing the finer points of when to start or not start the APU and the second engine, The Compass correction having been renamed the everything correction committee will be sending out mass e-mail, And Doug will be laughing so hard tears will be rolling off his cheeks!

see what happens when you don't live up to your obligations?

Complete chaos.

At least you realize that bad thing will happen to the east also.

Now imagine that situation with a new contract including the Nicolau pay raise and unity.

 

[Keroseneuser]

see what happens when you don't live up to your obligations?

Complete chaos.

At least you realize that bad thing will happen to the east also.

Now imagine that situation with a new contract including the Nicolau pay raise and unity.

Or with a new contract including a middle of the road deal, pay raise and unity.

At least you realize bad things will happen to the west also.

 

[cleardirect]

Or with a new contract including a middle of the road deal, pay raise and unity.

At least you realize bad things will happen to the west also.

The Nicolau was the middle of the road solution.

Bad things have already happened to the west. Mostly caused by the east.

 

[A320 Driver]

The Nicolau was the middle of the road solution.

Bad things have already happened to the west. Mostly caused by the east.

No, the NIC was a victory for you. It is NOT middle of the road for a large part of the East pilot group, no matter how you try to justify it or spin it.

Bad things have been happening on the East since 1989 mostly caused by incompetant management. Sorriest day of my life was the day USAir bought Piedmont with our own assets and our own money, then ran it into the ground. Thanks to Norfolk Southern Railroad also for putting us in play.

#### over.

Driver...

 

[nevergiveup]

Well, when you don't listen to ALPA National's advice and think you can outsmart a bankruptcy judge, you tend to get your asses handed to you.

And I'd say you've left ALPA in the dust when it comes to failure.

Just add that 3% grievance to your list along with DOH and your 90 days to a new contract.

How long ago did you win that nic thing? How many $$ has it cost you?

 

[prechilill]

see what happens when you don't live up to your obligations?

Complete chaos.

At least you realize that bad thing will happen to the east also.

Now imagine that situation with a new contract including the Nicolau pay raise and unity.

Great post. You are absolutely right, the east is about to be PSA'd with a merger and the easties nefarious ways will split their union wide open once APA gets ahold of them. Just look at the past seven years at how completely screwed up east pilots are, this is going to be very satisfying to watch. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.