OK , so we all know the mechanics will vote NO big this time

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sabre

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Aug 20, 2002
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Even those who voted yes last time are now feed up.
So for the rest of us, let''s just sit back and see what happens since we have no control over the situation.
Let''s share opinion.
here''s mine.
What feeds this company and all companies? Corporate greed. What is the lifeblood of Corporate greed? Financing.
Givens: US AIRWAYS has $500 million from an investor on balance and $1 Billion from taxpayors.
Mechanics would vote in a contract if it was %80 instead of 85% target.
So US AIRWAYS moves the target 5% which will in turn be given to all groups. This cost US AIRWAYS $50 million dollars, so that, the labor savings are around $800 million instead of $850 million. Then US AIRWAYS will be able to get its high with $800 million + 1 Billion + $500 million. Not bad huh?
The alternative is too piss off every mechanic we have, to throw some financing out the window, and to liquidate this company. That would be a bad move for a company positioned to reap big ca$h financing. It just won''t happen.
 

N513AU

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Aug 20, 2002
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I love how the IAM thinks we are stupid or something. I know exactly what I voted for - I voted to REJECT the proposed offer. So didn't most of my coworkers. Do I realize the consequences of this? Yes. The IAM might get thrown out along with our contract. They deserve it after even putting this POS out for a vote.

Seriously, mechanics and related are professionals. The IAM gave a proposal that cuts vacation time down to levels below menial labor. When McDonalds gives their employees two weeks vacation, US Airways can at least extend that as well. Plus, the low cost airline (ie. Southwest) will be paying their mechanics much, much more than us per that useless proposal. Factor in all the loss of OUR retro pay, the lump sum from the last time around, and the fact that the company wants a retro give back from us. Let's just top that off with a bribe to the IAM leadership and that this contract will be around for 6+ years, regardless of company profit, which certainly will be around at those labor prices.

If our contract gets tossed out, we wait until we emerge from Chapter 11, which will be next year and we vote in someone else, like the Teamsters or maybe AMFA. Then, the company actually will have to negotiate in good faith and won't have the bankrucpy court protection anymore.
 

cavalier

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Aug 28, 2002
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sabre:

The other unions ALPA and AFA have a me too clause which won't allow that to happen. You are in denial, you and every other mechanic that feels a no vote will work. The mechanics are NOT the only ones taking cuts big time, unlike the mechanics they have seen the light of reality. The mechanics with the no vote attitude are acting like a bunch of alcoholics, in total denial of the issues at hand. Everyone thinks the judge will save them. Look at people who face a divorce court judge, do they feel redeemed after going to the judge in divorce court proceedings, no, most are sorry they didn't have the sense to work it out beforehand. It’s hard to reason with people filled with rage, but you’ll soon see the light after the judge dumps the mechanics’ contract and the company pays you RJ wages and benefits, if you are even given a job. Go ahead, vote no and find another job like you had at U, find one where you can work 4 hours a day without getting into trouble and at the same time make a very handsome wage. Please find one, you and every other mechanic who is under the delusion that a no vote is your savior. Dave will not be stopped dead in his tracks and leave the mechanics alone like you and the others believe just because some unreasonable mechanics threw a temper tantrum. He will use his VERY HEAVY legal tool of bankruptcy law, just like he said he would do, he will move ahead without you. So go ahead and beat your chest while the steam shovel runs you over.
 

t-man

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Sep 4, 2002
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Cav,
Can you prove that the judge is gonna through the IAM-M contract out and pay commuter wages?
I think nobody knows what the judge is thinking accept for the judge.
We are all worried that this airline is gonna fold.
But,enough is enough,the way our contracts are going we'll be getting paid commuter wages in 7yrs.
Besides it appears to me that our senior execs. and the BOD
are structuring this airline to become a east coast commuter to feed another airline like United or who ever buys us.
I not going down like that without a fight,and I'm not letting Dave or my Union change my mind.
This whole deal smells bad,the amount of money that the company is gonna save is astronomical, and where is that money going? Not in my pocket with this proposal that for sure.
The boxing gloves are still on,lets fight some more.
 
C

chipmunn

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Per US Airways' S.1113 Legal Brief filed with the Bankruptcy Court the judge has two options. Keep current contracts intact or cancel the current CBA.

Considering Judge Mitchell has approved every company request, including canceling 67 aircraft lease contracts, it appears a strong precedence has been set for the company to successfully restructure.

For any union who does not ratify their proposed restructuring agreement, it appears the court will abrogate the union contract. If the court agrees to the company's motion, the affected employees will have the company impose larger cuts in pay, work rules, benefits, and retirement; the union would not be permitted to strike, and the union and (through a-s-s-essments) and its members would be responsible to pay US Airways multi-million dollars in damages.

Chip
 
C

chipmunn

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Cav:

Cav said: The other unions ALPA and AFA have a me too clause which won't allow that to happen.

Chip comments: Cav, you bring up a good point about the me too clauses. What Joesy and others have not grasped is that the motion in front of the judge proposes only two options: Keep or cancel the current contracts, period. There will be no further negotiations, there will be no strike permitted, and the unions could have penalties applied because the company is seeking damages, if the bankruptcy court approves US Airways' claim.

Cav said: We already lost the fight, that is the reality people can't seem to grasp, I knew that the second we were in bankruptcy. To simply get upset and vote no ends our future absolutely. To accept the hard reality means hope, hope that this airline will prosper and grow.

Chip comments: Cav, another valid point and you are absolutely right.

Chip
 

cavalier

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Aug 28, 2002
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Cav,
Can you prove that the judge is gonna through the IAM-M contract out and pay commuter wages?
I think nobody knows what the judge is thinking accept for the judge.
We are all worried that this airline is gonna fold.
But,enough is enough,the way our contracts are going we'll be getting paid commuter wages in 7yrs.
Besides it appears to me that our senior execs. and the BOD
are structuring this airline to become a east coast commuter to feed another airline like United or who ever buys us.
I not going down like that without a fight,and I'm not letting Dave or my Union change my mind.
This whole deal smells bad,the amount of money that the company is gonna save is astronomical, and where is that money going? Not in my pocket with this proposal that for sure.
The boxing gloves are still on,lets fight some more.
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MY RESPONSE:

We already lost the fight, that is the reality people can't seem to grasp, I knew that the second we were in bankruptcy. To simply get upset and vote no ends our future absolutely. To accept the hard reality means hope, hope that this airline will prosper and grow, or be able to be in a position as an enviable ***et that strong carriers would fight over, giving the employees a chance at a bright future. Voting no in these circumstances is no different that taking the bridge, then after you jump, hoping you never hit bottom. It’s plain foolishness. You may say: How do YOU know this is true. It’s called, GOD GIVEN COMMON SENSE.
 

pitguy

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Aug 21, 2002
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Heh. Don't worry. If we get this vote wrong then we can vote a 3rd time. I do just have one question though. Since we already voted this same thing down once before, then why does the company not just go to the judge and have the contract thrown out and then they can do as they please? Sounds to me as if they fear they might not do as well as some may think from the judge. You can not just park the mechanics in the desert and not pay on them anymore. The judge already told them before to negotiate when they previously asked to have the contract thrown out. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut because it is hard to trust the union or the company. I am so glad though that other non-mechanic employees care so much for us as to try to save of from ourselves. I feel loved.
 
OP
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sabre

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Aug 20, 2002
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Cav: the $50 million is a built in me too where theother unions get the extra 5%. It's only 50 million in whole.

At any rate, you and Chip are preaching in the past. The question isn't why the mechanics are going to vote down their contract, but rather, what is the company and union and judge and other employees going to be in for. I think my opinion is probably the most reasonble, i.e., that the company will fold its card and agree to the additional 5% that most feel isneeded to get all labor on board. That is only a $50 million hedge, the alternative seems to point to a liquidation and a game of tic tac toe.
 
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