Outcome-based Negotiations

[Tim Nelson]

Generally speaking, your management has made it clear that the outcome of this company will be based on its Labor negotiations. Do you agree?
I hold this assumption as true and plausible with certain groups only.

I believe this holds with the Pilot group, i.e., if the pilots don't negotiate more concessions then the 'outcome' of the airline will be, 'fold or be sold'. I think that much is clear. Likewise, if the pilots do give more $ then the airline will be viable [I do concede that this isn't so clear and may just give poor management more time to manage badly]

But at any rate, outcome-negotiations isn't necessarily the case with Fleet service.

While the pilot negotiations will dictate whether or not they keep their seats, fleet service is not under any such negotiations bondage. Fleet service does not weld the power or presence to change the outcome of this company, in any negotiations. Wall street will not collapse, the newspapers will not be printing how fleet service shut this company down, and the company will not be forced to be sold because ramp rats decided not to negotiate.

Anyone trying to manufacture consent that just because the pilots have to give more dictates that the ramp rats do...is nonsensical and unthinkable.

 

[etops1]

it is crazy to me that utiityy make the amount of money that they do. being an aircraft cleaner should not be a career job. it should be a stepping stone. a job for a kid to do out of high scholl while he wonders what to do with ihs life. i am not blaming the cleaners for making the money that they do . more power to them. i blame past management and the unions for negotiating such pay for a utility person. now the company is gonna come and ask them for a pay cut and i think that its gonna be hard for the company to get anything from utility. we will see. <_<

 

[RowUnderDCA]

I could have sworn that Bronner said that they weren't going to focus on pay cuts for employees making less than $45,000. I'm sure that means full-time employees and with some productivity improvetments. I'd guess that rolling hubs and adding point to point will do a lot to improve productivity among lower wage-earning full-time employees. it's just a guess.

 

[Hope777]

Yeah, he wont take pay cuts from them, but how many more Stations will go Mainline Express? They only take a ** 35% ** pay cut, and that is just base pay.

 

[diogenes]

I could have sworn that Bronner said that they weren't going to focus on pay cuts for employees making less than $45,000. I'm sure that means full-time employees and with some productivity improvetments. I'd guess that rolling hubs and adding point to point will do a lot to improve productivity among lower wage-earning full-time employees. it's just a guess.

He said it, but he didn't mean it.

Didn't they put a 'floor' under folks the last round?

Ask the p/t agents, or the expressed agents how well that floor held up.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Yeah, he wont take pay cuts from them, but how many more Stations will go Mainline Express? They only take a ** 35% ** pay cut, and that is just base pay.

And don't forget not only the pay cut but also the up to 80% retirement contribution cut fleet service suffered so the IAM can get its pension plan in place at a concession of over $40 million to fleet service.

Regarding MDA pension, it is my understanding that there isn't ONE and further a 0% contribution from the company in a 401k unless the employee contributes [then only a small % contribution]. It was a brilliant job by the IAM/company to manufacture the type of consent needed to pass a contract that included elements of 'no' employer retirement contributions and a yet to be negotiated health care plan.

 

[ua767fo]

it is crazy to me that utiityy make the amount of money that they do. being an aircraft cleaner should not be a career job. it should be a stepping stone.

I dont find it crazy at all. What I find crazy is how Allegheny grew to become a huge carrier by gouging people flying from ACO-UCA, and similar markets. They made huge profits, and rewarded their employees accordingly. In many stations people who clean also run freight, run mail, load aircraft, pushback, unload, run bags, work operations, check in passengers....ect ect. ect.

In my mind every job is a stepping stone on the way to the top of the pyramid...but the beautiful thing is, unlike the military, you dont have to climb it. As a point look at Schofield, a ramper/loader/cleaner who worked his way up to CEO.

 

[usfliboi]

This isnt a US problem. Its a problem EVERY Major carrier will face. Not if, but when!! If it hasnt happened yet, at your local friendly neighborhood airline, IT WILL !

 

[4merresrat]

it is crazy to me that utiityy make the amount of money that they do. being an aircraft cleaner should not be a career job. it should be a stepping stone. a job for a kid to do out of high scholl while he wonders what to do with ihs life. i am not blaming the cleaners for making the money that they do . more power to them. i blame past management and the unions for negotiating such pay for a utility person. now the company is gonna come and ask them for a pay cut and i think that its gonna be hard for the company to get anything from utility. we will see. <_<

Oh my gosh, I cannot believe you said that "it's crazy that utilitie workers make what they make, it should be a "stepping stone." I don't know what you do, but I hate to break it to ya, ALOT of people can't believe that pilots make what they make-and I know this will bring alot of heat, but PLZ, do ya remember a month or so ago pilots were rated one of the top over-rated jobs. And as far as you deciding that utility should be an entry level stepping stone type job. Well, again, I hate to break it to ya, maybe that is all some people can do. Maybe they do not have the backing, or money, or confidence to do anything else. I think it is extreeemly presumptious of you to make judgements like that. I could not believe what I was reading. Of all the gall h34r:

 

[cavalier]

DUPLICATE POST DELETED.

I THINK THE BOARDS ARE HAVING A COUPLE ISSUES TODAY...

 

[cavalier]

Oh my gosh, I cannot believe you said that "it's crazy that utilitie workers make what they make, it should be a "stepping stone." I don't know what you do, but I hate to break it to ya, ALOT of people can't believe that pilots make what they make-and I know this will bring alot of heat, but PLZ, do ya remember a month or so ago pilots were rated one of the top over-rated jobs. And as far as you deciding that utility should be an entry level stepping stone type job. Well, again, I hate to break it to ya, maybe that is all some people can do. Maybe they do not have the backing, or money, or confidence to do anything else. I think it is extreeemly presumptious of you to make judgements like that. I could not believe what I was reading. Of all the gall h34r:

It was a great post for management, playing right into managements hands of divide and conquer. Funny how it just "happens" that way, huh.

 

[colorado_cowboy]

it is crazy to me that utiityy make the amount of money

What’s crazy is you can’t even spell the word utility then you come on this board and try tell everyone how their position should be a stepping stone for kids just out of high school.
Now thats crazy :blink:

 

[ITRADE]

Do we really need spelling comments??? Don't let others start looking over your posts for spelling errors.

 

[ktflyhome]

Hey, Itrade...I see you changed your Signature! Is it because you and Pitbull agreed on a couple of things for a change?

 

[cavalier]

Do we really need spelling comments??? Don't let others start looking over your posts for spelling errors.

Itrade.


Since you chose to calm your signature, I have as well.

73 OM