Outsourced Work - TULSA

TWU informer

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Nov 4, 2003
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I just read through the Arbitration Decision on case M-10-1861

Some in the Union are claiming victory because some members were paid via the remedy.

Some members are complaining they were left out of the award remedy and rightfully so.

After I read through the decision, I conluded the 757 outousrce grievance is Dead on Arrival and more outsourcing of work will be the result of this case.

This case involed the outsource of 11 CFM-56 Engines for full ESV1 Overhaul.

8 were not in violation because the company "had discussions with the union"
3 were in violation because there was no evidence of discussion.

Basically the decision codified the meaning of our scope clause to read that all the company has to do is have a discussion with the union prior to outsource and then they are free to send out whatever they please. Oh sure 160 or so union members will split a $250K award, but what about the rest of us and our work?

Now to the 4 (Four) 757 Heavy C Checks recently sent to TIMCO, on this matter not only did management discuss with the union, but the union even offered an alternative plan. Then management outsourced anyway. This grievance is denied before it even is heard based on this CFM-56 Grievance Decision.

Either we make the scope language our most important negotiating item, or prepare for more company unionism as the only means to protect our work.

Yet the Local 514 Wesbite currently has this quote on it from John Hewitt, our Title 1 negotiator:

“John Hewitt, Chairman of Maintenance for TWU Local 514, which represents 5,600 workers at the Tulsa base, John said he believes that Tulsa Base management believes the outsourcing is temporary, however, A.A. upper management in Dallas may be testing the waters for outsourcing on an ongoing basis.” “But our contract guarantees we get to do our work,” Hewitt said. “We fight and scrap for every bit we can keep in-house.”

That is incorrect Mr. Hewitt, our contract apparently guarantees NOTHING of the sort, and now it is known to all.

I watch in awe as everything the TWU slammed AMFA for over the years is now happening right on their doorstep.

Union members are claiming victory because they shoved the Tulsa base 7 coverage issues up the crack of managements rear.
The best thing to do at this point is give the 7 day coverage in exchange for some outsource protection, i.e. SCOPE LANGUAGE or prepare to get decimated.

In my opinion, there needs to be a large negotiations update meeting held, and the leaders of Local 514 be open and honest with the members about what has just taken place. In other words LEAD and stop the hiding and charades.

SCOPE has just become a major issue for us all.

High Speed Steel, you are on the Arbitration Committee, what say you about my opinion and this decision?
 
I just read through the Arbitration Decision on case M-10-1861

Some in the Union are claiming victory because some members were paid via the remedy.

Some members are complaining they were left out of the award remedy and rightfully so.

After I read through the decision, I conluded the 757 outousrce grievance is Dead on Arrival and more outsourcing of work will be the result of this case.

This case involed the outsource of 11 CFM-56 Engines for full ESV1 Overhaul.

8 were not in violation because the company "had discussions with the union"
3 were in violation because there was no evidence of discussion.

Basically the decision codified the meaning of our scope clause to read that all the company has to do is have a discussion with the union prior to outsource and then they are free to send out whatever they please. Oh sure 160 or so union members will split a $250K award, but what about the rest of us and our work?

Now to the 4 (Four) 757 Heavy C Checks recently sent to TIMCO, on this matter not only did management discuss with the union, but the union even offered an alternative plan. Then management outsourced anyway. This grievance is denied before it even is heard based on this CFM-56 Grievance Decision.

Either we make the scope language our most important negotiating item, or prepare for more company unionism as the only means to protect our work.

Yet the Local 514 Wesbite currently has this quote on it from John Hewitt, our Title 1 negotiator:

“John Hewitt, Chairman of Maintenance for TWU Local 514, which represents 5,600 workers at the Tulsa base, John said he believes that Tulsa Base management believes the outsourcing is temporary, however, A.A. upper management in Dallas may be testing the waters for outsourcing on an ongoing basis.” “But our contract guarantees we get to do our work,” Hewitt said. “We fight and scrap for every bit we can keep in-house.”

That is incorrect Mr. Hewitt, our contract apparently guarantees NOTHING of the sort, and now it is known to all.

I watch in awe as everything the TWU slammed AMFA for over the years is now happening right on their doorstep.

Union members are claiming victory because they shoved the Tulsa base 7 coverage issues up the crack of managements rear.
The best thing to do at this point is give the 7 day coverage in exchange for some outsource protection, i.e. SCOPE LANGUAGE or prepare to get decimated.

In my opinion, there needs to be a large negotiations update meeting held, and the leaders of Local 514 be open and honest with the members about what has just taken place. In other words LEAD and stop the hiding and charades.

SCOPE has just become a major issue for us all.

High Speed Steel, you are on the Arbitration Committee, what say you about my opinion and this decision?
(QUOTE)Now to the 4 (Four) 757 Heavy C Checks recently sent to TIMCO, on this matter not only did management discuss with the union, but the union even offered an alternative plan. Then management outsourced anyway. This grievance is denied before it even is heard based on this CFM-56 Grievance Decision.

Does anyone know what the alternative plan was? I've heard it was to re-open MCIE and utilize the two superhangers but I don't know for sure just asking?
 
I agree with Informer,

The company is testing the waters for outsourcing of our work. However, our scope clause is clear. “The present volume of work.”

With everyone called back and AA hiring right now the company has the right to farm out. Unfortunately Timco has spent a lot of time and effort to secure AA work and will do whatever it takes to turn these AC. The Company leadership has been preparing for this. The membership has been distracted by internal conflict with which Union can better represent the membership, that we have lost sight of the fact “ AA is here to turn a product to make money.”

I believe this is a fight we cannot afford to lose and ALL OF US should be standing up and telling the company this is enough. NOT by slowing down or working by the book mentality! But, by turning the AC out in a safe professional and timely manner to create revenue in turn to pay for our labor. We all agreed when we hired in to work 8 hours a day for 8 hours of pay. If you live by this we have nothing to fear!!!

Did any of you stop and think that maybe certain management people were put in certain positions to make AA maintenance Fail? Now, upper leadership can go to Dallas and say we are better off farming the work out? It doesn’t matter if it’s line or overhaul! All you have to do is go to the different websites and see this is available for a bid!!!!

If you choose to continue to complain about each other than AA has already won!!!!!!

In Solidarity,

CIO
 
I agree with Informer,

The company is testing the waters for outsourcing of our work. However, our scope clause is clear. “The present volume of work.”

With everyone called back and AA hiring right now the company has the right to farm out. Unfortunately Timco has spent a lot of time and effort to secure AA work and will do whatever it takes to turn these AC. The Company leadership has been preparing for this. The membership has been distracted by internal conflict with which Union can better represent the membership, that we have lost sight of the fact “ AA is here to turn a product to make money.”

I believe this is a fight we cannot afford to lose and ALL OF US should be standing up and telling the company this is enough. NOT by slowing down or working by the book mentality! But, by turning the AC out in a safe professional and timely manner to create revenue in turn to pay for our labor. We all agreed when we hired in to work 8 hours a day for 8 hours of pay. If you live by this we have nothing to fear!!!

Did any of you stop and think that maybe certain management people were put in certain positions to make AA maintenance Fail? Now, upper leadership can go to Dallas and say we are better off farming the work out? It doesn’t matter if it’s line or overhaul! All you have to do is go to the different websites and see this is available for a bid!!!!

If you choose to continue to complain about each other than AA has already won!!!!!!

In Solidarity,

CIO

IF - this so-called "union" you obviously love dearly would get off their dead asses and represent American's rank and file as it's being paid to do instead of its own interests, there would be no problems. Why a DFR suit hasn't been filed is beyond me. Many needn't pay this "union" nearly $50 per month to get screwed over as the company will be happy to do that for free.

The twu won't change as it's too profitable for the International to stay status quo and making deals with the company for their benefit. Any other representation would eventually end up with the basic same group in charge, doing the same things to further their agenda - one only has human nature to obseerve to see how that works.

Please - dispense with your lies about how things can be. Having no union is better than having the twu. All you are "In Solidarity" with is the International rubes.
 
I agree with Informer,

The company is testing the waters for outsourcing of our work. However, our scope clause is clear. “The present volume of work.”

With everyone called back and AA hiring right now the company has the right to farm out. Unfortunately Timco has spent a lot of time and effort to secure AA work and will do whatever it takes to turn these AC. The Company leadership has been preparing for this. The membership has been distracted by internal conflict with which Union can better represent the membership, that we have lost sight of the fact “ AA is here to turn a product to make money.”

I believe this is a fight we cannot afford to lose and ALL OF US should be standing up and telling the company this is enough. NOT by slowing down or working by the book mentality! But, by turning the AC out in a safe professional and timely manner to create revenue in turn to pay for our labor. We all agreed when we hired in to work 8 hours a day for 8 hours of pay. If you live by this we have nothing to fear!!!

Did any of you stop and think that maybe certain management people were put in certain positions to make AA maintenance Fail? Now, upper leadership can go to Dallas and say we are better off farming the work out? It doesn’t matter if it’s line or overhaul! All you have to do is go to the different websites and see this is available for a bid!!!!

If you choose to continue to complain about each other than AA has already won!!!!!!

In Solidarity,

CIO


Funny when it was happening to AMFA you were banging your anti-union drum and blaming that UNION.
Now it is happening to the TWU and you make the call for unionism and claim management was put in place to make us fail.
We have been trying that safe, professional, timely production since Luis was President.

What we need is leadership to be honest so we can direct our attention in the right areas of need instead of all out greed.
The 7 day coverage issue is one, accountability is another, defined pension for new hires, single licensed new workers in the hangar.
These are all issues that should be worth siginificant changes in SCOPE.

In other words, we should able to negotiate real SCOPE language in exchange for some real work rule issues that AA wants.
But it must start with leadership and a real plan to get this done.

Generalizations of safe, timely, professional work is NOT going to get this addressed...period.
Burying your head in the sand, blaming management, and working under the same rules is nothing but more failure looming on the horizon.

Do you ant to fix this or just pretend like we give a damn?

Is there a single real leader down at the Local 514 Hall? Or are everyone of them afraid to face the truth and lead the membership?
If getting re-elected by telling everyone what they want to hear instead of the truth all they know down there?

C'mon MAN!
 
Funny when it was happening to AMFA you were banging your anti-union drum and blaming that UNION.
Now it is happening to the TWU and you make the call for unionism and claim management was put in place to make us fail.
We have been trying that safe, professional, timely production since Luis was President.

What we need is leadership to be honest so we can direct our attention in the right areas of need instead of all out greed.
The 7 day coverage issue is one, accountability is another, defined pension for new hires, single licensed new workers in the hangar.
These are all issues that should be worth siginificant changes in SCOPE.

In other words, we should able to negotiate real SCOPE language in exchange for some real work rule issues that AA wants.
But it must start with leadership and a real plan to get this done.

Generalizations of safe, timely, professional work is NOT goign to get this addressed...period.
Burying your head in the sand, blaming management, and working under the same rules is nothing but more failure looming on the horizon.

Do you ant to fix this or just pretend like we give a damn?
You want "union leadership" to do what, Dave?? To whose dog? One cannot get "leadership" to do a damned thing unless one has available some "leadership" to begin with. Since said "leadership" does not exist, you're barking up an non-occupied tree.

Little Jimmy put in an appearance at the Wall Street pig-in - maybe they're paying him too ...
 
The TIMCO outsourcing is definitely a huge shift in management's behavior to date.

Given the fact so little outsourcing has actually been done since 2003, it's safe to say there were probably forces within AA who were not in favor of outsourcing. My guess is that Arpey was blocking this, since he's got the only real veto-proof decision making capability. I'm also guessing that Ream spent a fair amount of time having to convince Gerard & Tom to test the waters.

By the time those four airplanes are done, AA's going to have more than just statistics to point to. They're going to have four airplanes to compare against TUL's work as far as reliability coming out of overhaul.

And, you guys still won't have a contract... if the data works in TIMCO's favor, I suspect you're going to have a much harder time getting more restrictive scope language into the contract.
 
The TIMCO outsourcing is definitely a huge shift in management's behavior to date.

Given the fact so little outsourcing has actually been done since 2003, it's safe to say there were probably forces within AA who were not in favor of outsourcing. My guess is that Arpey was blocking this, since he's got the only real veto-proof decision making capability. I'm also guessing that Ream spent a fair amount of time having to convince Gerard & Tom to test the waters.

By the time those four airplanes are done, AA's going to have more than just statistics to point to. They're going to have four airplanes to compare against TUL's work as far as reliability coming out of overhaul.

And, you guys still won't have a contract... if the data works in TIMCO's favor, I suspect you're going to have a much harder time getting more restrictive scope language into the contract.

Wrong...

These CFM-56 Engines were a shift in management behavior long before the 4 757's were sent to TIMCO.

And to say there was so little outsourcing since 2003 is also false.
What is false is the data that is used to determine outsourced work and always has been.
There is far more outsourced than has been claimed in the media.

We can get the language we need but we must first all rally around one common goal.

We are split on GEO Pay, Line Premium, 7 day coverage avoidance in Tulsa, Prefuding Medical, Defined Pension Issues, ect.

AA Management has given the TWU the issue to use as a rally issue and get everyone on the same rally, but instead of leadership, they are running around trying to hide the fact that this grievance decision and placed us all in jeopardy.

If and when we ever rally around one issue, and seriously consider what it takes to compete in the aircraft maintenance arena, we might actually quit bitching about management bonus awards and stop advancing divisions within the union and actually get something done.

Now on the other hand, if AA thinks they want competetive work rules, competetive cost, and still keep the SCOPE language in their favor. Well then I think you will see a scorched earth program evolve and management will go down with us. That would be very sad because both sides can win here but first honesty and leadership must be brought forward from within the union and more so from the negotiating committee.
 
... snip

Now on the other hand, if AA thinks they want competetive work rules, competetive cost, and still keep the SCOPE language in their favor. Well then I think you will see a scorched earth program evolve and management will go down with us. That would be very sad because both sides can win here but first honesty but come from union leadership.

It's pretty evident where mech and related is heading re: management's attitude. Building a "scorched earth" scenario in which management also loses bigtime is the only thing the management will comprehend - dealing with them is not unlike our military dealing with al Qaida or the Tallywhackers of Afghanistan - there is a price they aren't willing to pay but it's finding it that's a problem, mainly because our supposed "representation" is in bed with them.

Negotiation time is probably spent writing the next week's synopsis of the meetings as the outcome is predefined.

Keep employment numbers (and dues collections) high, extract concessions, and truck on.
 
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Oh, now everyone is worried about scope language? TWU leadership?? outsourcing???

With everyone fat, dumb and happy with the status quo....NOTHING WILL CHANGE!!!

I haven't read the arbitration case, but I would like to know who from the INTL showed up as the union star witness?? or did the INTL let 514 hang out to dry like they normally do with system-wide implication cases??? And, while the grievants can go and spend that $1k or so in awards.....the company laughs all the way to the outsourcing bank. Great job TWU!!!!

The scope clause is weak and the company is finally getting smart to use that weak language against US. Tulsa is the majority and the company is attacking by thumbing Tulsa's nose, and instead of the good ole boys standing tall and fighting....you guys turn to our WEAK union for guidance.

And now that YOU are losing the start of the battle against a $25B company you expect everyone to come to your aid.....and WE will when EVERYONE gets off their arse and gets rid of this union by signing a green card. You're finally getting a dose of the real TWU.....get used to it because I've known for 21 years that the TWU INTL and local leadership are full of shiiiiiiiit.
 
Now on the other hand, if AA thinks they want competetive work rules, competetive cost, and still keep the SCOPE language in their favor. Well then I think you will see a scorched earth program evolve and management will go down with us. That would be very sad because both sides can win here but first honesty and leadership must be brought forward from within the union and more so from the negotiating committee.
Scope will always be in management's favor. Believe it or not....there are things that management will never relinquish and scope is one of them. Look at the pilots....the pilots have leverage on scope and isn't scope the one item AA wants to change in order to be competitive???? Give up scope and jobs are gone!!!! It doesn't take a genious to figure that out. WE gave up scope many moons ago. The TWU system-wide arbitration case record has been horrible, and why is that????

So, next time WE get a T/A....never mind the geo pay, line pay, MRT pay, vacations, holidays......better read SCOPE because that is one article that means JOBS!!!!
 
Oh, now everyone is worried about scope language? TWU leadership?? outsourcing???

With everyone fat, dumb and happy with the status quo....NOTHING WILL CHANGE!!!

I haven't read the arbitration case, but I would like to know who from the INTL showed up as the union star witness?? or did the INTL let 514 hang out to dry like they normally do with system-wide implication cases??? And, while the grievants can go and spend that $1k or so in awards.....the company laughs all the way to the outsourcing bank. Great job TWU!!!!

The scope clause is weak and the company is finally getting smart to use that weak language against US. Tulsa is the majority and the company is attacking by thumbing Tulsa's nose, and instead of the good ole boys standing tall and fighting....you guys turn to our WEAK union for guidance.

And now that YOU are losing the start of the battle against a $25B company you expect everyone to come to your aid.....and WE will when EVERYONE gets off their arse and gets rid of this union by signing a green card. You're finally getting a dose of the real TWU.....get used to it because I've known for 21 years that the TWU INTL and local leadership are full of shiiiiiiiit.


OK, let's just stay divided, and complain.

I enough seniority to make it to retirement age. Do you?

I'VE GOT MINE BROTHER

I don't believe you will ever be an aid to my plight regardless of cards signed or not, or any other manipulation tool you can find to use.
Every issue doesn't need to be a tool for you to bang the AMP drum or complain about the weak union.

I see very little in your opinions or postings that reflect a specific idea on what needs to be done.
Here we have the single issue that both line and overhaul could champion together, and all you can do is drive the division wedge a little farther.
Good Luck with that strategy, I have been there and done that.