PAX stuck on jet 8 hrs no food, overflowing toilets

[Wretched Wrench]

http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2007/01/aa_8_hours.html

"American Airlines passengers flying from San Francisco to Dallas ended up being stuck on the same plane for 12 hours Friday. The flight was diverted to Austin and was then stuck on the tarmac for more than eight hours, according to The Dallas Morning News. The paper said the plane sat in Austin with "no food, dirty toilets and frustration levels rising."


"As for Flight 1348, the Dallas MOrning News writes that incident drew to a close after "the pilot took it upon himself to taxi the plane toward the terminal. Passengers were able to deplane at 9:04 p.m. -– after nearly 12 hours on the plane."

Out of curiousity, are the cockpit and cabin crew paid at the same rate as flying when the plane sits out on the ramp somewhere between touchdown and brakes parked?

 

[nbmcg01]

http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2007/01/aa_8_hours.html

"American Airlines passengers flying from San Francisco to Dallas ended up being stuck on the same plane for 12 hours Friday. The flight was diverted to Austin and was then stuck on the tarmac for more than eight hours, according to The Dallas Morning News. The paper said the plane sat in Austin with "no food, dirty toilets and frustration levels rising."
"As for Flight 1348, the Dallas MOrning News writes that incident drew to a close after "the pilot took it upon himself to taxi the plane toward the terminal. Passengers were able to deplane at 9:04 p.m. -– after nearly 12 hours on the plane."

Out of curiousity, are the cockpit and cabin crew paid at the same rate as flying when the plane sits out on the ramp somewhere between touchdown and brakes parked?

Yep.... This goes under "stuff happens". I find it interesting that noone seems to remember that the f/as are stuck in the same conditions as the customers. (and their jumpseats may as well be in the overflowing lavs) Certainly this is not something that the crew had any control over because I can promise you that if they could have gotten the folks off, they would have been off. Period.

 

[Garfield1966]

I have always been curious why a passenger does not just get fed up and pop the emergency exit. Yes they risk jail but I have to wonder if AMR or the government would actually pursue it. I know AA would not want the bad press. If the government went for it I would have a hard time believing they could find a jury of 12 people who would be willing to convict someone for wanting to get off a plane after being on it for 4 or 5 hours much less 12 hours. I would imagine public out cry would be horrible and I would also think that AMR would put a great deal of pressure on the feds to drop it. Not like AA wants their name plastered all over the news.

 

[DFWFSC]

The ramp must have been closed in AUS due to lightining because sombody could have easily driven a lav truck out and dumped the lavs and possibly taken bottled water and maybe snacks up the rear stairs. Or they could have pushed a empty plane off the gate to a hardstand and let a live trip onto the gate, any airlines gate for that matter.

 

[Oneflyer]

The ramp must have been closed in AUS due to lightining because sombody could have easily driven a lav truck out and dumped the lavs and possibly taken bottled water and maybe snacks up the rear stairs. Or they could have pushed a empty plane off the gate to a hardstand and let a live trip onto the gate, any airlines gate for that matter.

I have found AUS management to be pretty inempt, I'm not terribly surprised. I doubt the ramp was closed for 8 hours.

 

[jimntx]

As I understand it, it's not that the ramp was closed. The problem was that every single gate was occupied by OTHER a/c diverted from DFW or being held at the gate waiting for take-off to DFW.

I agree that someone should have used a little "out of the box" thinking and moved some planes off gates in order to bring in ones stuck on the ramp--even if only long enough for passengers to get off, get something to eat, and get the lavs dumped.

However, that being said, I think the main reason it didn't happen is because once the a/c door opens the crew would have probably gone illegal--especially the pilots. Then you would have an a/c full of passengers with no crew and no way to send a new crew until DFW re-opened. And, we all know that they were short of both pilots and f/as at the time.

The TSA has strict prohibitions against unloading passengers out on the ramp. And, they have proven themselves to be fairly impervious to bad press.

 

[eolesen]

I agree that someone should have used a little "out of the box" thinking and moved some planes off gates in order to bring in ones stuck on the ramp--even if only long enough for passengers to get off, get something to eat, and get the lavs dumped.

Having been on the ramp in AUS during weather events, that's easier said than done, Jim. The station is only staffed for their scheduled departures, and gating is already pretty tight.

Plus, they still have flights to ORD, STL, SJC that aren't impacted by DFW's closure, so that usually means the diversions have no choice but to wait it out on the hardstand.

 

[JS]

As I understand it, it's not that the ramp was closed. The problem was that every single gate was occupied by OTHER a/c diverted from DFW or being held at the gate waiting for take-off to DFW.

I agree that someone should have used a little "out of the box" thinking and moved some planes off gates in order to bring in ones stuck on the ramp--even if only long enough for passengers to get off, get something to eat, and get the lavs dumped.

However, that being said, I think the main reason it didn't happen is because once the a/c door opens the crew would have probably gone illegal--especially the pilots. Then you would have an a/c full of passengers with no crew and no way to send a new crew until DFW re-opened. And, we all know that they were short of both pilots and f/as at the time.

The TSA has strict prohibitions against unloading passengers out on the ramp. And, they have proven themselves to be fairly impervious to bad press.

That doesn't make any sense. Doesn't the crew's time accrue while they are on the plane with the door closed?

When NW got slammed by a blizzard at DTW, one of the reasons given for not using the emergency exits was that people would freeze walking from the plane to the terminal.

No blizzard in AUS, so why did people sit there so long? (threats of arrest I'm sure) Why are people such pussies?

 

[jimntx]

That doesn't make any sense. Doesn't the crew's time accrue while they are on the plane with the door closed?

When NW got slammed by a blizzard at DTW, one of the reasons given for not using the emergency exits was that people would freeze walking from the plane to the terminal.

No blizzard in AUS, so why did people sit there so long? (threats of arrest I'm sure) Why are people such pussies?

Yes, the time accrues while the crew is on the a/c. But, that is just the point. If you bring the a/c to the gate and the door opens, the crew's time would stop, but at that point they probably would have been illegal to continue the trip without a scheduled rest break of 8 hours behind the door. It is precisely because they were stuck on the plane for so long that they would be illegal at the gate.

No blizzard granted, but it was also raining in Austin. Besides, the TSA would probably not arrest the passengers, they would stick AA with a major fine for violating regs.

 

[eolesen]

The TSA has strict prohibitions against unloading passengers out on the ramp.

Since when? The requirement used to be that unloading via airstairs (or rear stairs on the 727/MD80) could be done as long as SIDA badge holders were present.

 

[jimntx]

There is only so much discussion that any of us can do regarding Safety and Security issues on a public forum without violating the law. However, it is my understanding that unloading passengers in a SIDA area can be done only in case of an emergency, or there is a MAJOR SIDA badge holder presence.

While I was on furlough I had the opportunity to be at the United Airlines flight attendant training facility at ORD. (Don't ask. Long, boring story). Because the facility is in the ORD SIDA, we were told that the smokers could not even step outside the door during breaks to have a cigarette. At the end of the day, the busses pulled as close to the door as possible without hitting the building and we had to go directly from the door to the bus.

And, don't forget the inconsistency of the TSA from one airport to another. What the regs are and what is standard practice at one airport means nothing at the next airport if the local TSA person doesn't want to do the same thing.

 

[nostradamus]

There should be a law requiring a time limit on how long passengers should be held hostage on an airplane. There is no reason why an air stair could not be brought up and let the people off in the terminal. The main reason this happens is airport and airline personnel are too lazy and do not want to deal with the passengers so they leave them on the plane. Their utter ignorance, insensitivity and inability to put themselves in the shoes of the people left on the plane is appalling.

 

[exnw]

Yes, the time accrues while the crew is on the a/c. But, that is just the point. If you bring the a/c to the gate and the door opens, the crew's time would stop, but at that point they probably would have been illegal to continue the trip without a scheduled rest break of 8 hours behind the door. It is precisely because they were stuck on the plane for so long that they would be illegal at the gate.

No blizzard granted, but it was also raining in Austin. Besides, the TSA would probably not arrest the passengers, they would stick AA with a major fine for violating regs.

Very poor decision making by Austin. Once the fuelers
started fueling the aircraft door must be opened. That
is a requirement for safety reasons. Crew was going
illegal anyway so that aircraft should have been brought
to a gate earlier. If that was done quicker maybe the
crew would not have timed out and flight could have
returned to DFW without all the fanfare.

 

[SegmentKing]

From USAToday:

Airline sues passenger for opening emergency exit door

An Indian low-cost airline is suing a passenger who opened an emergency exit door on a delayed flight after passengers were told they would not be allowed to deplane. The Mumbai-to-Delhi flight had to return to Mumbai after fog prevented it from landing at Delhi. "Air Deccan has suffered $20,000 in damage and explained that the escape slide of the emergency door of the aircraft deflated after the incident. The airline grounded the aircraft to do the necessary repair works. The airline will now have to replace it with a new one," writes IBNLive.com of India

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

There should be a law requiring a time limit on how long passengers should be held hostage on an airplane. There is no reason why an air stair could not be brought up and let the people off in the terminal. The main reason this happens is airport and airline personnel are too lazy and do not want to deal with the passengers so they leave them on the plane. Their utter ignorance, insensitivity and inability to put themselves in the shoes of the people left on the plane is appalling.

Its to bad management could care less about the people on board that Aircraft.
They are overworked and underpaid. If AA could give them some incentive pay to go the extra step this sort of thing would never happen.