Pension Payments & The Law

[BoeingBoy]

This is primarily about UAL and it's DB pensions, but for those that still have a DB plan here it is interesting info.

Jim

United Plan to Stop Pension Contributions Challenged (Update3)

July 26 (Bloomberg) -- UAL Corp.'s United Airlines violated federal laws by agreeing with bankers to halt contributions to its employee pension plans under terms of a new bankruptcy loan, the U.S. Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. told the airline.

Article

 

[PITbull]

I hope Congress gets off their azzets and passes legislation that prevents companies from walking away from pension liabilities just because they don't want them anymore for the existing employees. Corporations who have defined pensions now want to change the rules of the game for the purpose of increasing "shareholder value" ( their pocket books) and dumping the workers promised pensions. Won't even be able to put money in a 401K and eat at the same time.

U is attempting to get their labor groups to concede to termination as part of their cost target for those who have a defined pension (AFA and IAM)... on top of
robbing us of our defined pensions, they want to take our hourly wage down to poverty levels.


THEY CAN KISS MY BUTT! Rather they go into BK and take it than unions to concede to forfiet the pension as a "feel good" for stake holders and corporate execs. or for the pilots to feel good that their delusion of paying for others to have a defined pension crapola! It would be like Bronner hitting the lotto for millions and millions.


To me...that's a damn :angry: strikable offense in BK!!! :

 

[vc10]

I hope Congress gets off their azzets and passes legislation that prevents companies from walking away from pension liabilities just because they don't want them anymore for the existing employees. Corporations who have defined pensions now want to change the rules of the game for the purpose of increasing "shareholder value" ( their pocket books) and dumping the workers promised pensions. Won't even be able to put money in a 401K and eat at the same time.

U is attempting to get their labor groups to concede to termination as part of their cost target for those who have a defined pension (AFA and IAM)... on top of
robbing us of our defined pensions, they want to take our hourly wage down to poverty levels.


THEY CAN KISS MY BUTT! Rather they go into BK and take it than unions to concede to forfiet the pension as a "feel good" for stake holders and corporate execs. or for the pilots to feel good that their delusion of paying for others to have a defined pension crapola! It would be like Bronner hitting the lotto for millions and millions.


To me...that's a damn :angry: strikable offense in BK!!! :

Such legislation already exists.

Companies have to meet a very high standard for being able to distress terminate a pension plan: a company has to prove to the satisfaction of a bankruptcy judge that the company cannot be reorganized (and hence will be liquidated) unless the pension plan(s) is terminated.

In other words, the company has to prove that whatever happens, the pension plan will be terminated, since if the company is liquidated, the pension plan is terminated anyway. That's what happened to all the old steel companies recently. The pension plans of just about every single one were blown up, because it was clear that they'd all go out of business otherwise.

That was the case with the US Airways pilot pension plan. It may also be the case with the United pension plans, but that remains to be seen.

"Defined benefit" pension plans (where the company promises to pay you a pension after you retire) as currently run in the US are scams. They shouldn't be permitted, unless they stay 100% funded at all times by payment by the company to a highly-rated insurance company. Otherwise, only 401(k) type plans should be permitted. It's mind-boggling that unions still seek to have employers institute such schemes. When are they going to learn?

 

[N628AU]

I hope Congress gets off their azzets and passes legislation that prevents companies from walking away from pension liabilities just because they don't want them anymore for the existing employees. Corporations who have defined pensions now want to change the rules of the game for the purpose of increasing "shareholder value" ( their pocket books) and dumping the workers promised pensions. Won't even be able to put money in a 401K and eat at the same time.

U is attempting to get their labor groups to concede to termination as part of their cost target for those who have a defined pension (AFA and IAM)... on top of
robbing us of our defined pensions, they want to take our hourly wage down to poverty levels.


THEY CAN KISS MY BUTT! Rather they go into BK and take it than unions to concede to forfiet the pension as a "feel good" for stake holders and corporate execs. or for the pilots to feel good that their delusion of paying for others to have a defined pension crapola! It would be like Bronner hitting the lotto for millions and millions.


To me...that's a damn :angry: strikable offense in BK!!! :

UAL doing this, as US did and may do again, have nothing to do with " increasing shareholder value", but corporate survival.