Pilot Pension Anger is Growing & Enormous

C

chipmunn

Guest
Today’s letter from Dave Siegel to the pilot group was expected from ALPA.
During last Thursday’s Senate floor debate when Senator Grassley rejected Senator Santorum’s S.119 bill to provide a legislation solution to US Airways pension problem, Senator Specter convinced Grassley to hold a hearing on the matter. Then Specter said the bankruptcy court could accept a potential legislative solution as a part of the Confirmation Statement to keep the airline’s reorganization on track.
Specter and Santorum then scheduled last Tuesday’s Senate Appropriations Subcommittee hearing on the pension problem, but the pilot’s anger is bubbling over because those in attendance now believe the company purposely “pulled the rug out†from beneath the pilot group.
Today one moderate MEC member told me, “I lost what little respect I had for Seigel when I heard his testimony. Don't forget, the plan we were supporting came from management and we latched on to it with all of our effort. He made us (ALPA) look like idiots in front of the US Senate.â€
Another moderate MEC member emailed me, “They PROMISED in writing to protect our pension! This will screw the pilots over, the same pilots who have put him in this position, he had better be well aware if he kills the plan. It won't be pretty around here. I'll tell you that today I had 15 messages on my answering machine ALL of them said burn the place down. I've received over 40 e-mails 28 said burn the place down. This is total opposite of what I received during both T/A's.
In today’s edition of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Ron Freundlich, spokesman for US Airways' unionized pilots, called Siegel's statement an outrage and a betrayal. He said it undercut the efforts of the company and the Air Line Pilots Association to persuade Congress to approve legislation allowing the airline to stretch out its pension payments. It tells the government and Congress that it doesn't have to act, he said. He said the pilots had already agreed to $565 million in annual wage and benefit cuts and pension plan reductions that would save the company about $575 million over seven years. Freundlich said the union would not agree to additional concessions.
I have never seen this type of anger and outrage by the pilot group who is the only employees who are being asked to sacrifice their pension, which will not be substituted by management’s plan. In fact, during testimony at Tuesday’s Senate hearing when pressed by Specter, Siegel said the company would offer a defined contribution plan that would provide pilots with less benefits than the pilots second pension concession.
The pilots remain livid and are not interested in the “gutting†of their retirement plan. Today the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review wrote This does nothing to relieve our concerns, Roy Freundlich, spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association, said of the memo (from Siegel to the pilots). Without the details, we assume what they are trying to do is provide pilots with severely depleted benefits, Freundlich said. The union assumes management aims to lower its pension contribution without preserving pilots' retirement benefits.
In my opinion, if a legislative solution is not obtained, the company will distress terminate the pilots pension and abrogate the pilots contract. This will take the so-called “labor friendly†reorganization and transition it to an “un-labor friendly†reorganization and war could break out between management and the pilot group. I cannot tell you the number of times I have read posts or emails throughout the day the call Dave Siegel either Frank Siegel or Dave Lorenzo because I have lost count.
As you know, I believe it’s an insult to purposely mispronounce somebody’s name, but this expresses the depth of the problem that could lead to the liquidation of US Airways. If the company emerges from bankruptcy, there may never be cooperation again between the pilot group and management and this airline and its employees could relive Continental Airlines of the 80’s or Eastern Air Lines of the 90’s.
I believe it is best for US Airways and all of its employees for Dave Siegel and Rosemary Murray to use every waking moment to obtain a legislative solution to the pilots defined benefit problem, because without such relief, I believe this company could eventually liquidate due to this problem.
In Siegel's memo the the pilot group the chief executive said, I know how important this is to you and your families; however, in my opinion he and others have underestimated the depth of this statement.
Chip
 

iflyjetz

Senior
Oct 2, 2002
422
0
Chip,
I am truly sorry to hear about these problems. I can only hope that they are resolved amicably.
I would suggest that you spend more time rallying the troops into fixing U's internal problems and less time discussing grandoise plans on how to conquer the world.
 

wings396

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
3,672
1,122
Welcome to the club, now you know how the C/S and fleet group feel about our new payscales..not to mention our pensions went out the window years ago...Imagine if you will, low pay and no pension.
 

atc

Member
Aug 28, 2002
23
0
I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, especially given the fact that changes to pensions are an emotionally charged issue. However, the term on the Hill for this type of legislation is a "sympathy bill." A sympathy bill is one of the thousands of bills that are filed each year for a small constituency.

These bills have little chance of passing under the best of circumstances (the best of circumstances meaning little real budget or idealogical impact). With some significant opposition in Congress--those legislators beholded to other airlines that do not want to see US Airways emerge from bankruptcy--the chance of passage is essentially nil.
 

ISN

Member
Jan 11, 2003
24
0
Chip, welcome to the BOHICA club. I joined 10 years ago when I donated my pension to you. Now my pay is being cut from $22.00 an hour to $13.05, I can't even save for my own retirement now. This while WN pays agents $25.00 an hour to do less than I, and their pension is GREAT! This is a systematic screwing of all employees. We were first to bend over, now it's your turn.
 

johnnyfleet

Advanced
Oct 3, 2002
109
0
Chip,

Aren't you the one that said "We have to take these cuts so the people that are left will have jobs, and the rest will have a severance package." All I can say is Welcome to the Club, we lost our Pension in 1991, and the low cost competitors have a defined contribution pension plan, not a defined benefit pension plan.
 

allbuzness

Newbie
Aug 21, 2002
8
0
I think all employees understand the way the pilot group feels. All the cuts they have made was to save the company and preserve their pension.

Now maybe the pilots know how the other employee groups feel that ALREADY lost their pension.

However, hopefully a solution can be found and EVERYONE can keep on working and save their own money for retirement.

Good luck to all.

Good luck to USAirways.
 

cavalier

Veteran
Aug 28, 2002
2,409
1
www.usaviation.com
I think all employees understand the way the pilot group feels. All the cuts they have made was to save the company and preserve their pension.

Now maybe the pilots know how the other employee groups feel that ALREADY lost their pension.

However, hopefully a solution can be found and EVERYONE can keep on working and save their own money for retirement.

Good luck to all.

Good luck to USAirways.

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As a mechanic watching all my fellow co-workers hitting the streets and sitting at one of Dave's road shows hearing him respond to this question: Mr. Siegel, we have many older mechanics that if given an incentive they would retire and leave room for the junior mechanics with young families. Can you help us out with this issue? His answer was simply: No, we don't have the money for that sort of thing. Now here we are looking at the pilots pension fund problem, a very big problem. If the company didn't have the pennies, when compared to the pension fund problem, for early outs for mechanics, well then short of a miracle I can't see the company funding the pilots pension fund at anywhere near the level it was. If the pilots can't swallow like real hard, then I guess we will see the end of U and its long and very unstable history. There is no way the government is going to help out or in any way correct pension funds of those amounts. How do I know this, you’re kidding right?
 

usjacket

Senior
Aug 30, 2002
309
52
"The simple fact is the company must evolve" "Bronner will not put his money at risk for a non-competitive product" "there are no white knights waiting to invest in us" "why dont the naysayers just quit" "In my opionion labor friendly is what has gone on a USAirways"
 

mlt

Senior
Dec 2, 2002
291
0
www.usaviation.com
Bottomfeeder,[BR]It appears you are questioning the integrity of our corporate leaders. When CWA, IAM and AFA asked the same question Chip and his cohorts wanted to tar and feather us. Now that all of labor realizes what we are dealing with it is time to unite forces. This school yard brawl will continue until someone from ALPA (i.e. Chip) steps up and states "perhaps we were wrong when we told all of you to roll over". These simple words might begin to build the bridge. Remember we are dealing with [STRONG]Union Busters. [/STRONG]They have a significantly better chance of successfully achieving their plan when they are dealing with a house divided. [BR][BR][STRONG]United We Stand; Divided We Beg.[/STRONG]
 
OP
B

BottomFeeder

Guest
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/17/2003 8:20:34 AM allbuzness wrote:

I think all employees understand the way the pilot group feels. All the cuts they have made was to save the company and preserve their pension.

Now maybe the pilots know how the other employee groups feel that ALREADY lost their pension.

However, hopefully a solution can be found and EVERYONE can keep on working and save their own money for retirement.

Good luck to all.

Good luck to USAirways.


----------------
[/blockquote]
allbuzness,

The pension is above and beyond the already agreeded to give backs. The saving of the company has been the most important mindset of the pilots. The give back by the pilots ( 10% of the work force)already represent more than 60% of the total package. This is flat out rape. The pilot force has lost about 1/3rd of it's list thru furloughs. How much more do
the pilots need to give?

Dave Lorenzo is not being a upfront type of guy. He is not cutting enough waste at the top level. There are corporate boxes at the stadiums and only GOD knows what other perks they still have.

Does Honor and Truth come to mind?

How about Honesty?

We gave him the tools to make this work. Not once but two times.

How can he still not make this work?

I am begining to think he is just a WOLF in SIEGLE clothing.

 

CS AGENT

Member
Jan 6, 2003
45
0
I started with PI in 1981 and in 1991 I had my pension ripped from under me.
Since I have been with this company it has been run all about the pilots and every other group over the years have been raped when times get hard just to subsidize the pilot group. If our group can surrender half of our jobs to express contractors for Dave to save over 30,000 jobs, Than Chip should be more than happy to do what half the company did in 1991 and give up his pension. If anyone needs supporting statements why Chip and the pilots should do this... Go back and read all of Chips prior post to CWA/IAM fleet employees.
 

CS AGENT

Member
Jan 6, 2003
45
0
"Chip is just ONE pilot."
Yes but Chip has proclaimed himself as the spokesman for the Pilots, ALPA and the Company on these boards, The Charlotte Observer, and anyone else he could get to listen to him.
As for the CWA... WE DON'T HAVE A PENSION!!!
 

autofixer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,804
241
www.usaviation.com
Chip is just ONE pilot. It seems that alot of opinions here were formed by one or two people's prior stated opinions. In the sceme of things, not one thing said on these boards is relevant to anything in the real world. Just look at last weeks vote. According to these boards, they were huge NO votes. I reality, they all passed. The pilot pension issue is going to be resolved in Chapter 11 or Chapter 7; it is as simple as that. Then management will come after the IAM, AFA and CWA. Oh, you believed Dave when he said only the pilot pension was to be terminated?

I only read this junk because I am hooked on it; kind of like "Joe Millionare" or "The Spinster."