Pilot Pension - Where we go from here...

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chipmunn

Guest
Mlt:

Mlt asked: Is ALPA using inside experts or have they hired someone from the outside? I am not taking anything away from your International, but this is serious and requires top of the line

Chip answers: Mlt, both outside and inside advisors including a former top PBGC official. In addtion, you're right, the situation is very serious and so is ALPA.

Chip
 
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chipmunn

Guest
Just one more point...during round three of these labor concessions (actually round four for ALPA with the revised Midway agreement) Siegel has accomplished something no ALPA leader has ever done - he has galvanized the pilot group into a strong, one voice union.

The pilots are now speaking with one voice with 99.9 percent of ALPA members strongly opposed to the gutting of their retirement plan - period.

ALPA members are very angry and one point is certain, if this pilot group is not provided a satisfactory retirement plan, the pilot's will walk away from the airline and US Airways will be forced to liquidate. The MEC and rank-and-file votes are there for a cessation of operations.

Chip
 

A320 Driver

Veteran
Aug 24, 2002
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I agree with Chip. I was on the line yesterday and I have never seen people so angry. Everyone I talk to feels betrayed and backstabbed by the company's action. The MEC is completely united on this issue. Where I disagree is involving IAM and AFA in this. This is between the company and ALPA. We will take this fight to the management of this company for a FAIR and EQUITABLE settlement. Right now all the paper we have from the management isn't suitable to wipe with.

A320 Driver
 
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chipmunn

Guest
There is a lot of information being disseminated by US Airways and ALPA that is inconsistent. But, after personally discussing this issue with leaders of both sides of the dispute, this is my opinion of where we are headed.
Next week the Company will file a motion to terminate the pilot pension plan per S.1113 of the bankruptcy code and violate the protections provided under the restructuring agreement S.1113 letter.
Either on Monday, January 27 or Tuesday, January 28 management will deliver to each pilots home a detailed alternative defined contribution pension plan, which with the PBGC minimum benefits will be a combined take it or leave it offer. The offer will provide each pilot with a combined PBGC and company provided defined contribution retirement of about 40 percent of a pilot’s FAE at age 60.
Then ALPA and the Company will begin to litigate this issue per the motion. In my opinion, Judge Mitchell will not initially rule on the motion, he will request the parties negotiate a settlement, and he will defer a ruling to a later date. During follow on negotiations ALPA will not agree to any solution that terminates the pilot pension because once it is obvious that there will be no agreement between the parties, the court will have no recourse but to allow the company to terminate the pilot pension plan.
Judge Mitchell recognizes the bankruptcy financing agreements and ATSB loan guarantee require a pension funding resolution or the company cannot emerge from bankruptcy. Since the courts primary responsibility is to the creditors, the judge will set aside ALPA’s claim.
When this occurs, trust between US Airways CEO Dave Siegel and ALPA could be forever severed, which does not bode well or the future and could be a lethal event to management’s desire to “change the cultureâ€￾.

Once the judge terminates ALPA's pension, the pilots will have two options: Strike or agree to management's ultimatum. At this point it's unclear where this is headed, but at this point the majority of the rank-and-file members would vote to strike. Why? The pilots understand the impact of the termination of their pension plan and they believe what is proposed is unfair (with ALPA the only labor group during bankruptcy process being asked for another major concession). Moreover, the pilot’s believe a valid strike threat would given them the ability to negotiate from a position of strength because in essence a work stoppage would led to the liquidation of US Airways.
Another important point is ALPA advisors have told the MEC if company asks the court to terminate the pilot pension plan, management would then be in violation of the S.1113 letter they signed in August. This letter prohibits management from asking the court for relief from any of the pilot contractual provision(s). Furthermore, the legal advisors believe that all of the relief that we have given the company over the last 6 months may be null and void because this letter was contained in the initial restructuring agreement.
Meanwhile, during the 60-day distressed termination process and litigation, ALPA and the US Airways Congressional delegation will continue to pursue a legislative solution. ALPA Legislative Affairs believes this effort is now gaining positive momentum on a national level in the Senate Finance Committee, which may permit the pilot defined benefit plan to remain in place before the March 31 deadline to emerge from bankruptcy.
Reports indicate the Senate Finance Committe will review pension problems for the entire country and ALPA could be a beneficiary of any potential legislation to permit the proposed revised restoration funding plan.
ALPA has scheduled a Special MEC meeting with its advisors at ALPA International Headquarters on Tuesday, January 28, to be in session as events unfold.
Chip
 

mlt

Senior
Dec 2, 2002
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Chip,[BR]Is ALPA using inside experts or have they hired someone from the outside? I am not taking anything away from your International, but this is serious and requires top of the line.
 

mlt

Senior
Dec 2, 2002
291
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A320,[BR]Through all of this you have maintained a calm demeanor. For the first time, now that you are angry, I believe ALPA's membership is uniting and ready to fight. I wish your leaders wisdom; your experts creative thinking; and to all peace of mind.
 

cavalier

Veteran
Aug 28, 2002
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Why was it ok for the mechanics to take it not one time but twice for the good of the company, when we were all were being told by some pilots not to be selfish and to even quit so we don't hurt the other employees at U, so why was that ok?

There are a few pilots posting saying in essence to burn down the house, not fair, betrayed, lied to, and screw every other employee group. As long as the pilots are getting screwed then everyone else should get the same screwing. It's not like the pilots and all other employee groups were on a level playing field to begin with. I said this before and I will say it again: If the company is broke, it's broke. I find it hard to comprehend how ALPA was caught completely off guard not having clue! What am I missing here? I can't see how ALPA can possibly be satisfied at this point with anything that involves more cuts. How did it get this far and come to this stalemate? What if Dave is not the hammer as Chip has said so many times? The shortfall in the pilots pension fund is more than the company is borrowing in totality, so what is the answer? The only answer I read here is, shut the doors because the pilots would be better off since they are highly educated with multiple careers, talents and own businesses. I just can’t see the reasoning for this present situation, it’s like U is not supposed to survive. I honestly don’t begrudge anyone like I have been accused, I just question reasoning that seems bizarre.
 

flyguy121

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
360
0
I've been away for quite some time...just occasionally lurking now and then...and my, my...Chip has really changed his tune hasn't he? Of course Chip always enjoyed preaching about what others should or should not give, and how unfair it was when other employee groups (IAM, CWA) would not "play ball" way back when...but how quickly he changes his tune when he sees how this could affect him and the precious pilot pensions! I recall Chip screaming bloody murder about other employee groups "dooming the future of US," and how very unfair that was, but seems perfectly content to do that to everyone else...hmmm....sounds a bit like your old friend Lilninj...remember her? She used to be your favorite punching bag. I used to agree with much of what you said Chip...but you've lost all credibility in my eyes and what little credibility you may have had with others.
 

USAirUnited

Advanced
Dec 17, 2002
235
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Wasn't Chip the cheerleader before always asking us to take on for the team.....? [BR]Well Chip now the shoes on the other foot. [BR]
 

wings396

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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"Once the judge terminates ALPA's pension, the pilots will have two options: Strike or agree to management's ultimatum. At this point it's unclear where this is headed, but at this point the majority of the rank-and-file members would vote to strike. Why? The pilots understand the impact of the termination of their pension plan and they believe what is proposed is unfair (with ALPA the only labor group during bankruptcy process being asked for another major concession). Moreover, the pilot’s believe a valid strike threat would given them the ability to negotiate from a position of strength because in essence a work stoppage would led to the liquidation of US Airways"




Do the pilots understand the TERMINATION OF THEIR SALARY...Another bunch of cry babies willing to burn down the house to show the company and the rest of the employees just how " Galvanized they are...This has to be the stupidest bunch of crap that Chippy has posted to date...aren't you moving overseas with the family yet????
 

Art at ISP

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Aug 20, 2002
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OK, I have been a silent observer on this issue since it started, but now I feel I need to chime in.

First I find it reprehensible that ANY employee group would consider a shortsighted and selfish move like a strike. This is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. First of all, like it has been said previously--are the pilots willing to be unemployed IMMEDIATELY, and to give up not only their pension but their livelihood as well? And are they willing to take down the rest of the ship with them?

I don't for a minute agree with what's being done, but I can't support for a minute the notion of a strike--that would not only be the death knell for the company but the talk of it alone right now is probably negatively affecting future bookings. I hate to admit this but even I am considering booking away from US because of all the strike talk--and you know how much of a dedicated supporter of you guys I am! If I am beginning to have these thoughts, just think about other customers....

I would hate to think that the whole thing would come crashing down because of this, but who knows.....
 

av8orwife

Member
Aug 20, 2002
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Pittsburgh
www.usaviation.com
I know at some point people get to the point where they have just had enough. That being said. Then quit. Let those who want to stay stay. Simple.

It is a free country. If you don't like what the Company is willing and ABLE to pay for a job then make a personal decision. You have the RIGHT to accept the offer or seek employement elsewhere. Where does it give the right of some to screw the enitre work force. To implact so many families....???

Remember it is not a normal situation. I'm not against the concept of a strike, it is when the strike will result in more of a gain than a loss. As I see it, If you strike while the Company is BROKE (in Chapter 11) you will gain little and lose everything (because the Company will file Chapter 7). So at this point it will gain nothing....wait until you have something to gain. Timing is everything.

I may not personally work for USAirways, but my husband does and the job he has provides food and shelter for me and our children. I work too but in the financial/insurance industry.

KJB