Pilots new proposal and the Me Too Clause

olderguyAMT

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Jun 12, 2010
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OK....I HAVE A QUESTION......................
The pilots have a new co. proposal. Profit sharing and new stock options? My question is this: Exactly what triggers any Me Too Clause, and who decides? Does the APFA have a the MTC? Will TWU groups get exactly what the pilots ratify by vote? What about the Yes voters like Fleet Service who may not get what they are hoping for? I am getting uneasy, queasy, and troubled about this.

Due to the No Vote, the April contract was denied, with the March proposal in effect. How do we know that the MTC will be in the March Proposal? Is it in writing somewhere? Will fearless leader plead the 5th amendment when it fails to show up in writing?
I am a sceptic due to all the secret meetings, closed door negotiations, and back room deals. The proof is in the pudding.
How do we know, when the pudding is now just a secret recipe and hasn't even been made yet?
Just trust them? Bob?
 
The way things have been going, if there are some additional monies to be dispersed to the maint & related group - look for the TWU to attempt to use that to keep more DUES PAYERS - at our expense. Unless we are brought up to at least industry average pay and benefits, it will be vote NO, and work safe!
 
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OK....I HAVE A QUESTION......................
The pilots have a new co. proposal. Profit sharing and new stock options? My question is this: Exactly what triggers any Me Too Clause, and who decides? Does the APFA have a the MTC? Will TWU groups get exactly what the pilots ratify by vote? What about the Yes voters like Fleet Service who may not get what they are hoping for? I am getting uneasy, queasy, and troubled about this.

Due to the No Vote, the April contract was denied, with the March proposal in effect. How do we know that the MTC will be in the March Proposal? Is it in writing somewhere? Will fearless leader plead the 5th amendment when it fails to show up in writing?
I am a sceptic due to all the secret meetings, closed door negotiations, and back room deals. The proof is in the pudding.
How do we know, when the pudding is now just a secret recipe and hasn't even been made yet?
Just trust them? Bob?

I completely understand your feelings about MTC. In the very beginning, we have learned from not getting stuff in writing. For now on everything is put in writing or we don't believe it. 401K match and Denver maint is a good example. If your union does not have this in writing, I wouldn't count on the company agreeing to bringing the mechs contract up to the same level as the pilots. If your union says you have a MTC and you all don't get brought up, it would just be another reason to oust the TWU. Strongly suggest you guys stay away from the teamsters, did I say strongly suggest??
 
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OK....I HAVE A QUESTION......................
The pilots have a new co. proposal. Profit sharing and new stock options? My question is this: Exactly what triggers any Me Too Clause, and who decides?

From what I've read since the "value" of the ask was changed that triggers the "Me Too Clause". This simply opens the deal up for those groups that have it to renegotiate for something, or things of that value.

Does the APFA have a the MTC?

Like MTC, Stores and the APA there is no "Me Too" clause for the APFA because we didnt agree to all those other concessions.

Will TWU groups get exactly what the pilots ratify by vote?

Very doubtful. If they lowered the Ask from 20% to 17% they will have the difference to work with.

What about the Yes voters like Fleet Service who may not get what they are hoping for? I am getting uneasy, queasy, and troubled about this.


Due to the No Vote, the April contract was denied, with the March proposal in effect. How do we know that the MTC will be in the March Proposal?

We dont and wont know until there is a TA.
 
How do you quantify 13.5 % stake in the new company upon emergence?

And is that stake value in addition to the reduced ask?
 
I completely understand your feelings about MTC. In the very beginning, we have learned from not getting stuff in writing. For now on everything is put in writing or we don't believe it. 401K match and Denver maint is a good example. If your union does not have this in writing, I wouldn't count on the company agreeing to bringing the mechs contract up to the same level as the pilots. If your union says you have a MTC and you all don't get brought up, it would just be another reason to oust the TWU. Strongly suggest you guys stay away from the teamsters, did I say strongly suggest??

This lack of written documentation caused the majority of the pilots union board to reject the other co. offer. Open language is like a scam in labor contract proposals. Tell me the co., with all their high priced fancy lawyers, that they could not place details in a offer or proposal? How many gazillions have they spent already?? It's just another stalling tactic that points to the lack of bargaining in good faith.
With the BK stress at record levels, the temptation is there to go for and jump at anything that sounds good. This could be a perfect example of manipulation at its finest. Just hang a nice juicy fat carrot in front of a starving donkey, and see if he goes for it!
 
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From what I've read since the "value" of the ask was changed that triggers the "Me Too Clause". This simply opens the deal up for those groups that have it to renegotiate for something, or things of that value.

Bob , is this in writing somewhere?
 
Exactly. so how does the TWU add up the "me too"?
and....Since its not in writing, we all know the answer!!!!
Maybe there will be a secret agreement behind closed doors that is not made public until we read it in the back of the new contract agreement; or, it will be broadcast on Channel 6 News before being issued by the union. sarcasm, of course!
 
Am I missing something, or is this actually a very decent proposal from a company in Chapter 11? I get that there are some work rule compromises, but it seems like the pilots get raises and a lot of potential upsisde with the equity stake. In addition, there's the talk of not terminating their pension plan. Maybe I'm missing something, but it's actually more than I expected to see AA offer them.

Of course the question now is whether or not the APA will actually let the pilots vote on the matter.
 
Is the 13.5% equity stake value included in the "me too" clause?
If yes, how is it to be quantified?
 
AA is demanding $315 million a year in pilot savings (down from $370 million in the term sheets) and has offered the pilots a claim equal to 13.5% of the new stock. Looks like the pilots are being offered one percent of the stock for each $23.33 million of annual compensation savings. AA's total "ask" (more like demand) is now down to $1.063 billion, or 17% (down from $1.25 billion, or 20%). So that means that employees should get a total of 45.5% of the new stock if everyone gets the same relative percentage of new stock.

As others have said, nobody knows what the new stock will be worth when AA exits Ch11, but if UA and DL are any guide, the company could be worth $5 billion to $10 billion in the aggregate.
 
Am I missing something, or is this actually a very decent proposal from a company in Chapter 11? I get that there are some work rule compromises, but it seems like the pilots get raises and a lot of potential upsisde with the equity stake. In addition, there's the talk of not terminating their pension plan. Maybe I'm missing something, but it's actually more than I expected to see AA offer them.

Of course the question now is whether or not the APA will actually let the pilots vote on the matter.

Well from what I see its a 10 year deal that has 0%-0%-0%-0%-5%-4%-3%-2%-0%-0% so thats a total of 14% over 10 years or around 1.4% plus they lose their "A" plan.