Pilots On Furlough

[linevans50]

I now that it has only been a few months since the last pilot furloughs. Is AA planning on any more pilot furloughs? If not, will they hire any back, and when?

 

[Winglet]

Could be more furloughs after summertime. AA is dumping all the 70-130 seat capacity by retiring the F100s. Lots of captains getting bumped back to F/O and taking a 40% total pay cut. Lots of FO have already taken the 100% pay cut.

It appears that Arpey is willing to put AA at a severe competitive disadvantage while he tried to put the sword all the way into the pilot union's back. He's playing brinkmanship with the scope provisions that AA itself agreed to in the last pilot contract. In essence, holding furloughed and to-be-furloughed pilots hostage and to getting a sweetheart revision to the APAs already gutted contract. The overall strategy is probably to migrate domestic flying to commuter-class contracts, even if it damages the company even more in the short term.

The economics of the 50 seat RJs stink and now AA doesn't have anthing inbetween the RJ and the MD-80 except a few cramped 70 seat RJs that customers don't like. Meanwhile JB prepares to eat AA's lunch by having lots of 90 seat aircraft on order. Studies by the Boyd group says AA needs at least 150 90-100 seat aircraft now. I think Arpey agrees . . . he just wants to crews to do it for commuter compensation . . . . . $60k a year for captains, $30 for F/O, no retirement, and expensive medical, airport standby reserve, etc, etc, etc. . . . . and he's willing to bleed the company even more in order to break the unions once and for all. If you're management, it's now or never. US Airways ALPA has already been broken with LOA91 and soon to be 3rd round of compensation cuts . . . but "only" $300 million more for the pilot group this time. In the coming 4th round, who knows.

As far as recalls go, IMHO, not until late spring 2006 at the very earliest . . . and that's only if fuel prices come down, and the economy actually recovers from recession, we can stop throwing blood and treasure into the chaotic cesspool in Iraq, and somebody can get the runaway government spending under control. In other words, probably not going to happen. I think most of the furloughed pilots will never have a chance to return to AA because their jobs will be sold away.

In the meantime the low choice carriers will continue to take market share by cherry picking routes with their new aircraft and the comprehensive route carriers will continue to bleed.

 

[acmech]

I guess they should have kept the 717. Just another AA screw-up, and the employees take it in the shorts for it.

 

[HGIEFOswitch]

If AA would have kept the current TW717s plus future firm deliveries, (not to mention options) AA would have 100 plus fuel efficient modern airplanes in the 100 seat market. Airtran took some of TW717s and dumped Air Wisconsin out of an RJ contract because it was more profitable to use in house 717s. It was all there and tossed away.

 

[AAviator]

Winglet, what brinkmanship are you referring to?

 

[MiAAmi]

The economics of the 50 seat RJs stink and now AA doesn't have anthing inbetween the RJ and the MD-80 except a few cramped 70 seat RJs that customers don't like. Meanwhile JB prepares to eat AA's lunch by having lots of 90 seat aircraft on order. Studies by the Boyd group says AA needs at least 150 90-100 seat aircraft now. I think Arpey agrees . . . he just wants to crews to do it for commuter compensation

I was just shown a study by the company that 25% of the market is controlled by lcc's. By 2006 that is expected to climb to 60%. They suggested that the domestic side of AA is probably not going to change very much. However we could expect to see more iimprovements on the international side. It could be that AA's new lunch will be more towards International Operations. I'm looking foward to when the new terminals at JFK and MIA open and what new International Service follows.

 

[goingboeing]

AA management doesn't give a crap about the rank and file employees.They only care about the short term success of AA to artificially prop up the stock prices so they can get more bonuses. They have no interest in long term success of AA because they have golden parachutes when AA gets ready to close up shop.

AA management has circumvented the labor agreements by IN-House OUTSOURCING [moving pilot jobs to Eagle and moving AMT jobs to OSM shops]

I get tired of fellow union people thinking it is okay for management to do whatever they please and then make deep cuts in our pay and benefits. A classic statement in Tulsa is "At least we still have a job brother" With this attitude prevailing the pay and benefits will be hacked so much that the people on layoff won't recognize AA if they are ever recalled.

I show up at work and do my job but its just another job now and AA management and the weak Union representation have made the morale so low that I don't care if AA survives anymore.I'll try to do a good job for personal pride not because I care anymore how well AA does as a company.

I'm an AMT with 18 years + service and I use to work for a better American Airlines.[one that I was proud to be part of and wore AA logo clothing off-duty]
Now I'm reluctant to tell anyone where I work and will ride the ship until I can get off with retirement or the ship sinks to the bottom.

Have a very nice day!

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

AA management doesn't give a crap about the rank and file employees.They only care about the short term success of AA to artificially prop up the stock prices so they can get more bonuses. They have no interest in long term success of AA because they have golden parachutes when AA gets ready to close up shop.

AA management has circumvented the labor agreements by IN-House OUTSOURCING [moving pilot jobs to Eagle and moving AMT jobs to OSM shops]

I get tired of fellow union people thinking it is okay for management to do whatever they please and then make deep cuts in our pay and benefits. A classic statement in Tulsa is "At least we still have a job brother" With this attitude prevailing the pay and benefits will be hacked so much that the people on layoff won't recognize AA if they are ever recalled.

I show up at work and do my job but its just another job now and AA management and the weak Union representation have made the morale so low that I don't care if AA survives anymore.I'll try to do a good job for personal pride not because I care anymore how well AA does as a company.

I'm an AMT with 18 years + service and I use to work for a better American Airlines.[one that I was proud to be part of and wore AA logo clothing off-duty]
Now I'm reluctant to tell anyone where I work and will ride the ship until I can get off with retirement or the ship sinks to the bottom.

Have a very nice day!

goeingbeoing;

I agree, and disagree with your post.

IMHO,


1. AA DOES'NT care about It's employees

2. AA DOES care about the long term success of AA, "FOR THEMSELVES"

3. AA HAS circumvented the labor agreements, with the help of WEAK union leaders AND MEMBERS, "predominately" in TEXAS, and OKLAHOMA !!!!!!
("NOW" can you see why AA moved it's corperate HDQ's to TEX-A$$, away from NEW YORK. AA knew DAM well that the TWU, APFA, and APA would follow them "south" of the Mason Dixon line) !!

4. When people in TUL say, "At least we have a job", they're only doin' what comes natural. "THERE ARE NO "R E A L union people in Oklahoma !!!!!!!

Draw an (invisible) triangle from BOSTON to CHICAGO (down) to WASHINGTON DC., back up to BOSTON. Any area's in that triangle are know union stronholds, plus right along the west coast from LA, (NOT San Diego), up to SEATTLE !!!

5. You're RIGHT, "It is just another job", certainly NOT the one you and I knew when we started !!!

6. Right again, Don't tell ANYONE where you work, do 17.5% LESS work, and try to stick it out until retirement. AND VOTE AMFA.

Finally, what's happening is really nothing new.
Our ol' Uncle Bobby Crandall told Wall street years ago, that they could expect to see main line flying on International, and transcons ONLY.
Sure looks like he knew what he was talking about.
HE ALWAYS DID !!!

NH/BB's

 

[Oneflyer]

You union people are so misinformed and off base that it is impossible to even begin to refute what you say.

1. Just because you work on or fly an airplane doesn't mean you know how to run an airline.

2. The one and only reason AA can not compete on domestic routes is the FACT that unionized labor is not productive enough. Its not the size of the planes, its not any of this other BS you people blame it on. It is soley the unionized work that is at fault. There is no other reason. Nothing else makes up enough of the cost to matter. AA can't operate 90 seat jets because the damn mainline pilots make it unprofitable, and surpriseingly enough AA is in business to make MONEY, not to provide your retirement.

3. The people that run this airline are pretty damn smart, and there sole perpose in life is not to break the union, it is to run the a profitable company. It is the disgruntled union worker that blames all of their problems in life on the airline that causes AA to not be profitable.

4. You should be lucky that you have a job. If you can't quit tomorrow and go find a job paying you as much or more than you get now, then you are OVERPAID! Quit complaining and start doing something to help the company and not hurt it.

5. If your job sucks so bad and AA is such a bad place to work, LEAVE. Let someone that is willing to work hard to help the company succeed and grow have your job. Maybe with their help AA can compete with JetBlue and Southwest.

 

[Oneflyer]

One more point....


How much is being part of a union helping all of those out of work steel workers in Penn., Ohio, Illinois, and New York? I bet they sat around and laughed at the guy that used to say " at least we have jobs" and I bet now they wished they did have jobs. The world has changed, you can stick your head in the sand and talk about how bad management is, but that doesn't change the facts. The old days aren't coming back.

 

[goingboeing]

You union people are so misinformed and off base that it is impossible to even begin to refute what you say.

1. Just because you work on or fly an airplane doesn't mean you know how to run an airline.

2. The one and only reason AA can not compete on domestic routes is the FACT that unionized labor is not productive enough. Its not the size of the planes, its not any of this other BS you people blame it on. It is soley the unionized work that is at fault. There is no other reason. Nothing else makes up enough of the cost to matter. AA can't operate 90 seat jets because the damn mainline pilots make it unprofitable, and surpriseingly enough AA is in business to make MONEY, not to provide your retirement.

3. The people that run this airline are pretty damn smart, and there sole perpose in life is not to break the union, it is to run the a profitable company. It is the disgruntled union worker that blames all of their problems in life on the airline that causes AA to not be profitable.

4. You should be lucky that you have a job. If you can't quit tomorrow and go find a job paying you as much or more than you get now, then you are OVERPAID! Quit complaining and start doing something to help the company and not hurt it.

5. If your job sucks so bad and AA is such a bad place to work, LEAVE. Let someone that is willing to work hard to help the company succeed and grow have your job. Maybe with their help AA can compete with JetBlue and Southwest.

Where's the numbers that prove that AA's unionized employees are not productive enough? Sounds like someone has drank some anti-union Kool-Aid.

Our own AA management has told us one of the reasons they have not outsourced more maintenance is because of our PRODUCTIVITY.They can get 757 Heavy "C" checks done cheaper elsewhere but the a/c down time is 25-30 days.We can turn them in 13-15 days at Tulsa M&E. Every day the aircraft is not flying it cost AA a lot of lost revenue and cash flow is the name of the game.

So before you start throwing out inaccurate statements get the facts.

The unionized employees may be lacking in several areas but overall productivity is not one of them.

If you knew something about an airline you would understand that SWA [LUV] is profitable because several reasons not related to employees.They operate 1 type
of A/C [B-737] which means less training and spare parts inventory.They also do not issue boarding passes which allows them 20-25 minute turn times at the gate.It takes AA 40-45 minutes to turn and MD80.This difference allows SWA to fly each of their a/c 1 more leg each day which means they generate more revenue in the same amount of clock hours each day.

The AA corporate structure breeds inefficiency because good floor level management employees are afraid to speak up in fear of losing their jobs.
AA management has created this culture and does not want to give it up.

I could write a book on all things I see wrong with AA and maybe one page dedicated to all the good things at AA.

 

[Oneflyer]

Listen, you don't need to throw out the, "IF you knew anything about an airline" line to me. Southwest if profitable because they have fewer people doing the same jobs than AA. Fact is that AA could turn planes in less than 30 minutes if the FA would clean the planes like at Southwest. Unionized lost time at AA is between 5 and 10 percent, meaning sick time and other paid leave. For salaried employees its probably below one. Why? Because from a union stand point when people are out sick, the company has to pay another union worker to work. DFW has ramp workers sitting around all day, watching while other crews work flights, unwilling to help them.

By the way, I'm not sure about this but its hard for me to believe that the 3 different generations of 737 southwest flies don't use at least some different parts. I would think a lot of the parts would be different.

 

[Rusty Bullethole]

You union people are so misinformed and off base that it is impossible to even begin to refute what you say.

1. Just because you work on or fly an airplane doesn't mean you know how to run an airline.

2. The one and only reason AA can not compete on domestic routes is the FACT that unionized labor is not productive enough. Its not the size of the planes, its not any of this other BS you people blame it on. It is soley the unionized work that is at fault. There is no other reason. Nothing else makes up enough of the cost to matter. AA can't operate 90 seat jets because the damn mainline pilots make it unprofitable, and surpriseingly enough AA is in business to make MONEY, not to provide your retirement.

3. The people that run this airline are pretty damn smart, and there sole perpose in life is not to break the union, it is to run the a profitable company. It is the disgruntled union worker that blames all of their problems in life on the airline that causes AA to not be profitable.

4. You should be lucky that you have a job. If you can't quit tomorrow and go find a job paying you as much or more than you get now, then you are OVERPAID! Quit complaining and start doing something to help the company and not hurt it.

5. If your job sucks so bad and AA is such a bad place to work, LEAVE. Let someone that is willing to work hard to help the company succeed and grow have your job. Maybe with their help AA can compete with JetBlue and Southwest.

Oneflyer............

Fair play to you! I'm 100% behind your post.

The truth hurts sometimes!

 

[Winglet]

"It is soley the unionized work that is at fault. There is no other reason. Nothing else makes up enough of the cost to matter. AA can't operate 90 seat jets because the damn mainline pilots make it unprofitable, and surpriseingly enough AA is in business to make MONEY, not to provide your retirement."


That's funny, Southwest is one of the most heavily unionized major airlines in the country and Delta the least. Lets see also . . . . NWA is shedding itself of it's low pay, low benefit, commuter operations because in a few years they don't want to be stuck with a bunch of obsolete inefficient RJs and a sub-company that doesn't show a profit without flim-flam accounting at the parent corporation.

Maybe, just maybe, it has more to do with the leadership, how management treats it's employees, and management's ability to strategically plan and market the product.

 

[Winglet]

Next time you get on an airplane, feel free to poke you head in and tell the Captain and FO that you think they are overpaid, lazy SOBs, then tell the Lead Flight Attendant that you think she should be cleaning toilets.

You'll feel so much better after being so intellectually honest.