polystyrene ban

[xUT]

Redwood City Considering Ban on Polystyrene Food Service Containers

The proposed ban would not be implemented until January 1, 2013, allowing plenty of time for businesses to learn about their options, and transition to non-polystyrene containers. However, businesses will be encouraged to voluntarily implement the ban prior to 2013, and those that do so would be recognized by the City Council as “early adopters” and leaders in helping to reduce the volume of this pollutant in our environment. Adopting an ordinance banning the use of polystyrene will also help the City meet certain conditions of its Municipal Regional (storm water) Permit, related to reductions in trash loading in the City’s storm drain system.

This was adopted and will be enforced 1/1/2013.
Next is the plastic bag ban.

Thoughts?

B) xUT

 

[Ms Tree]

Personally I am for it. We are treating our planet like a waste can. There is a small island of garbage floatingout in the Pacific. People throw out tons of trash that should be recycled. The packaging of so many goods is substantially larger than the product is just so that it looks good on the shelf.

This is the only planet we get. There is no second chance, no do over , no easy button. We really need to start giving a crap about the land, air and water on this small little rock orbiting a star.

 

[eolesen]

Ordinances like that just wind up pushing business across town borders.

After Portland, OR enacted a similar band, the Cascade Policy Institute did a study on the after-effects:

“Alternatives to [polystyrene foam] foodservice containers actually carry more environmental impacts...At the same time, this law drives up costs to business and consumers and negatively affects the business environment in Portland. As a means of educating the public, the ban fails because it encourages the perpetuation of misunderstanding among the citizens of Portland.”

Most fast food chains seem to have already eliminated polystyrene, so this will just hurt the mom & pop shops more than anyone. Corn-starch alternatives are more expensive.

Comparing 6x6x3 clamshells (hamburger size), polystyrene runs $40 for a case of 500 (http://www.etundra.c...ell-P43351.html)

Cornstarch clamshells of the same size run $82 for a case of 500 (http://www.ecoproduc...clamshells.html)


As for the plastic bag bans... SFO did one, and it didn't decrease the % of litter they were finding in audits:

And trading one type of littered items for another simply changes the makeup of litter without reducing it. For example, when San Francisco placed restrictions on the use of certain plastic foodservice products, the city found that alternatives became more littered. Substituting one type of litter for another is not a smart strategy.

 

[southwind]

Personally I am for it. We are treating our planet like a waste can. There is a small island of garbage floatingout in the Pacific. People throw out tons of trash that should be recycled. The packaging of so many goods is substantially larger than the product is just so that it looks good on the shelf.

This is the only planet we get. There is no second chance, no do over , no easy button. We really need to start giving a crap about the land, air and water on this small little rock orbiting a star.

Could have been another option or backup plan but, Nobama and his peeps cut funding to NASA !

 

[xUT]

Ordinances like that just wind up pushing business across town borders.

After Portland, OR enacted a similar band, the Cascade Policy Institute did a study on the after-effects:

Most fast food chains seem to have already eliminated polystyrene, so this will just hurt the mom & pop shops more than anyone. Corn-starch alternatives are more expensive.

Comparing 6x6x3 clamshells (hamburger size), polystyrene runs $40 for a case of 500 (http://www.etundra.c...ell-P43351.html)

Cornstarch clamshells of the same size run $82 for a case of 500 (http://www.ecoproduc...clamshells.html)


As for the plastic bag bans... SFO did one, and it didn't decrease the % of litter they were finding in audits:

Since this is a county wide mandate, there is no where to run and it is spreading from san fran freako to san jose.
The 'idea' by making it mandatory is making it equal to all businesses without taking into account that the mickey dees and Chinese restaurants don't use polystyrene anyway.
Try taking a steak dinner in a wax wrap stuffed in a paper bag yum yum
The ban also does not include 'pre packaged' food so the grocery stores are safe.
Absolutely, the mom & pops take it in the arse again.
But we can always raise our prices and not loose customers, right?

B) xUT

 

[Ms Tree]

How much is a clean environment worth? A little inconvenience? A few extra cents? Should we bring back lead into fuel? Let power plants take off all the emission controls? How about we get rid of fuel injection and bring back carbs and straight pipes? While we are at it lets get rid of safety belts, UL under writers, fire detectors, all building safety regulations, hell, lets get rid of all the safety regulations for everything. Sure a few people will die from poor craftsmanship and shoddy work but hey, survival of the fittest right? What counts is all the money we will save.


Just because some measures have been executed poorly does not mean that the ideas are unsound.


How hard is it to recycle/reuse a water container? How hard is it to take a canvas bag to the grocery store and use it? The myopic view that most people seem to take on issues such as this strikes me as quite dangerous and short sighted.

 

[southwind]

When can I get my "Carbon CardTM " ?

 

[Seatacus]

How hard is it to take a canvas bag to the grocery store and use it?

Don't mind if someone wants to use a canvas bag but please keep it off the check-out counter. The food I purchase goes there and you never know where that bag has been.

 

[eolesen]

No kidding. A norovirus outbreak in 2010 was traced to a reusable grocery bag...

http://www.oregonliv...ientific_s.html

http://www.oxfordjou...jid/prpaper.pdf

 

[Ms Tree]

Yea. You're probably right. An isolated case or two should definitely take presidence. Id be willing to bet the seat belt caused a few deaths as well. We should probably get rid of them too. What do you think?

 

[Knotbuyinit]

How much is a clean environment worth? A little inconvenience? A few extra cents? Should we bring back lead into fuel? Let power plants take off all the emission controls? How about we get rid of fuel injection and bring back carbs and straight pipes? While we are at it lets get rid of safety belts, UL under writers, fire detectors, all building safety regulations, hell, lets get rid of all the safety regulations for everything. Sure a few people will die from poor craftsmanship and shoddy work but hey, survival of the fittest right? What counts is all the money we will save.


Just because some measures have been executed poorly does not mean that the ideas are unsound.


How hard is it to recycle/reuse a water container? How hard is it to take a canvas bag to the grocery store and use it? The myopic view that most people seem to take on issues such as this strikes me as quite dangerous and short sighted.

As Eolesen stated in a previous post, the ban on polystyrene products will only increase, not decrease the environmental impact, not to mention the additional cost to food vendors and the consumers.

When polystyrene foam foodservice products are banned, suppliers and consumers usually rely on alternative containers manufactured from polyethylene plastic coated paperboard. In 1991, Dr. Martin Hocking, an associate professor of chemistry at the University of Victoria, British Columbia, Canada, performed a study of foam and paper disposables and found that “the environmental impact from the chemicals and energy used in making paper cups, as well as the emissions from incinerating or burying paper cups, exceeds the impact of making and disposing of cups made of plastic foam.

In 1990, Dr. William L. Rathje debunked a persistent myth about polystyrene foam deposited into landfills. “The fact that plastic does not biodegrade, which is often cited as one of its great defects, may actually be one of its greatest virtues,” Landfills are designed to discourage bio-degradation. Landfill engineers remove sunlight, oxygen, and water, the three features essential for bio-degradation to occur. Although some bio-degradation takes place, the goal is to retard decomposition. The fact that polystyrene foam products do not biodegrade is a benefit, not a detriment!

Until you can produce scientific evidence to the contrary, a ban on polystyrene products does nothing to improve the environment for the benefit of the masses. It's your myopic viewpoint that strikes me as "quite dangerous and short sighted".

Packaging legislation and unintended consequences: A case study on the necessity of life cycle management.

 

[eolesen]

Your "isolated case or two should take precedence" is the same argument people use against the death penalty, no?

Kalifornia and other dense urban areas could easily deal with the landfill issues if they adopted the same solution that Japan has: incineration. But that's considered a taboo here in the US, even though it could be used for generating electricity, steam, etc. and there are ways to contain the emission rates.

 

[Seatacus]

Yea. You're probably right. An isolated case or two should definitely take presidence. Id be willing to bet the seat belt caused a few deaths as well. We should probably get rid of them too. What do you think?

Yeah, we should probably tell medical staff that it is not that important to wear rubber gloves, restaurant staff they don't have to wash hands, and while we are at it let's get rid of toilet seat covers. My wife just spent 4 days in the hospital for an infected scrape and a neighbors son got MRSA from a cut. What do you think?

 

[Ms Tree]

Yeah, we should probably tell medical staff that it is not that important to wear rubber gloves, restaurant staff they don't have to wash hands, and while we are at it let's get rid of toilet seat covers. My wife just spent 4 days in the hospital for an infected scrape and a neighbors son got MRSA from a cut. What do you think?

That's what you got out of my statement? Seriouslly?

 

[Ms Tree]

I think what the studies you cite are missing is that it does not look at recycling as part of the equation. The studies, at least the parts that you posted all use the perspective that one form of product will replace another form of product. Taking this scenario I agree that there is no difference.

I am approaching this from a recycling perspective. I want to see mandates for recycling glass, aluminum, plastic and anything else than can be re-purposed. I'd like to see packaging restrictions so that packages are not oversized for the product. I want all stores to have recycling stations through out the stores. All food service facilities to be required to recycle.

Yes they will ####. It will take a little extra time and effort but the cost savings would be enormous. The resources saved would be massive. The problem is that we are lazy and no one gives a crap. I do the recycling where I work. Been doing it for over two years. I still cannot get people to figure out that the blue bin with the recycling emblem is not for trash. I still have to dig cans and bottles out of the trash. And this is just employees who I can yell at for not putting things in the right place.

It can be done. I think it should be done. I know it will not be done and that is just sad in my opinion.