Pre-boarders Sitting In Emergency Exit

[ECPaul]

Today I flew SWA from PHX to BWI - a great flight except for the fact that the usual morons got into the preboard line, and then promptly sat in the exit-row seats (extra leg length), leaving those who had waited at the front of the "A" boarding line completely steamed. And to make matters worse these violaters had to be at least 75 years old, and did not look strong enough to put my 15 pound carryon into the overhead bin.

Even though I was in the "B" boarding group (and so had no shot at all at the emergency exit row seats), I still thought that it was pretty low of these preboarders to do this. And for those of us who fly SWA a lot (like me), we probably see this happen all the time - I actually saw a near fistfight erupt once when someone tried this tactic.

When I mentioned this to the flight attendents they were super sympathetic and frustrated with the situation, but they told me that there was nothing that they could do about it without facing a lawsuit from the ADA (Americans with Disability Act) lobby group. Talk about insane! I'm all for accomodating folks with disabilities, but one place they should not sit is in the emergency exit row - the difference of a few seconds between an "able" versus a "disabled" person trying to get a 50 pound exit door removed may be the difference between life and death for the rest of the plane. Apparently this law was actually changed once some months ago, but then the ADA sued and so now we're back to the craziness.

The flight attendent suggested that the only way this law will change is if enough people write to the FAA about this. And so I'm wondering if there are others among you who also think that this law should be changed so that no one in the preboard line should be allowed to sit in an emergency exit row ever.

What would be the most efficient way to do this? Could someone post a website with a link to the FAA comments page along with standard text to copy and paste into an email?

I'm guessing that someone has already done this and that I'm just late to the game. But if I'm not, I'd appreciate any ideas/help that you have to offer.

Thanks.

 

[Winglet]

Then fly an airline that has assigned seating instead of a cattle car. You want it cheap, you got it. Quit complaining.

Today I flew SWA from PHX to BWI - a great flight except for the fact that the usual morons got into the preboard line, and then promptly sat in the exit-row seats (extra leg length), leaving those who had waited at the front of the "A" boarding line completely steamed. And to make matters worse these violaters had to be at least 75 years old, and did not look strong enough to put my 15 pound carryon into the overhead bin.

Even though I was in the "B" boarding group (and so had no shot at all at the emergency exit row seats), I still thought that it was pretty low of these preboarders to do this. And for those of us who fly SWA a lot (like me), we probably see this happen all the time - I actually saw a near fistfight erupt once when someone tried this tactic.

When I mentioned this to the flight attendents they were super sympathetic and frustrated with the situation, but they told me that there was nothing that they could do about it without facing a lawsuit from the ADA (Americans with Disability Act) lobby group. Talk about insane! I'm all for accomodating folks with disabilities, but one place they should not sit is in the emergency exit row - the difference of a few seconds between an "able" versus a "disabled" person trying to get a 50 pound exit door removed may be the difference between life and death for the rest of the plane. Apparently this law was actually changed once some months ago, but then the ADA sued and so now we're back to the craziness.

The flight attendent suggested that the only way this law will change is if enough people write to the FAA about this. And so I'm wondering if there are others among you who also think that this law should be changed so that no one in the preboard line should be allowed to sit in an emergency exit row ever.

What would be the most efficient way to do this? Could someone post a website with a link to the FAA comments page along with standard text to copy and paste into an email?

I'm guessing that someone has already done this and that I'm just late to the game. But if I'm not, I'd appreciate any ideas/help that you have to offer.

Thanks.

[post="271190"][/post]​

 

[FWAAA]

I'm tall, and I do this when I fly WN. WN employees have told me that company policy is to allow tall people to preboard without questioning them about their reason for preboarding. I'm not yet 75 and I can certainly manage my carryons (and the emergency exit hatch as well). B)

 

[ECPaul]

1. I'm not complaining about SWA - I think they're great. It's some of the passengers I mind.

2. Glad to have a tall strong person sitting in the exit row, but too often that's not the case. Following this logic I suppose the best solution would be for all of us to just get in the preboard row, not matter what our physical ability or limitation - not.

3. Seems like I'll not be finding many sympaticos in this little corner of the world. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[FWAAA]

Don't get me wrong - I'm sympathetic. But I found that standing in the A line wasn't getting me an exit seat, so I joined them. At first I complained, but when I was told that WN wouldn't (said couldn't, but I don't believe that) stop people from preboarding to snag the exits, I decided to adopt the "me-first" attitude. Now I simply push the elderly and infirm out of my way (along with the parents and their small children) to fight for that cherished legroom.

It's not unlike the people who see a huge backup on the highway, and they know a mile or two back that they need to be in a particular lane (lotsa signs telling them so) yet they speed past all the people waiting in the mile-long single file lane and dart in at the last minute. They may have saved half an hour, but that's why the huge line moves so slowly, making nearly everyone who waits in that long line feel like a chump.

Some states have gone so far as to make such actions on the highway a ticketable offense.

I actually agree with your solution: If you preboard, you sit in a non-exit row, Period. That way, someone in the A line has a shot at it.

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

Here's a sympatico ear...

First of all let me congratulate you for being smart enough to choose WN for your travel needs.

Secondly, your post was quite reasonable. No whiny tone.

Not sure what i would have done in your shoes. Obviously, if people are infirm enough to need to preboard, they are too infirm to be operating the emergency exit window should that become necessary.

I guess you could have mentioned it to a FA who could have inquired of the people in the exit row "sir/ma'am...did you preboard? Preboarding suggests that you have special physical requirements that preclude you from being qualified to operate the emergency exit equipment"

Sometimes it is best just to let sleeping dogs lie. The problem is neither the airline, nor the policy, nor the fact that they allow preboards (DL hacked me off when they quit allowing families with handicapped children preboard, but a Medallion member can.)

 

[wnbubbleboy]

Then fly an airline that has assigned seating instead of a cattle car. You want it cheap, you got it. Quit complaining.

[post="271195"][/post]​

Great attitude Skippy, now go back under that assigned rock where you came out from.

 

[WNjetdoc]

Then fly an airline that has assigned seating instead of a cattle car. You want it cheap, you got it. Quit complaining.

[post="271195"][/post]​

Winglet, I have read many posts by you and you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with SWA. Its not good to keep that hate inside of you. I think perhaps you hear voices in your peanut telling you SWA is the reason for you living in a cardboard box. Plz ignore those voices as they are lying to you, its not true.

I have a great idea, next time you start to get one of those terrible headaches of yours and you start to hear those voices in your head just take a hammer, or a hatchet, whatevers handy, and bash the hell out of those voices....yes, that would be very good....for us, .

 

[ECPaul]

Surprise, surpise! A few sympaticos out there. That's nice for a change. Thanks for the vote of support. To FWAAA I can't say that I disagree with the idea of "if you can't beat them, join them" in the preboard line - that would be an interesting strategy. I imagine that if enough people started doing it this would force the hand of WN and make them deal with it in a more effective way. Of course, then I'd have to endure the burning stares of all of those folks waiting so patiently in the front of the "A" line. To be considered......

And in regard to ELP_WN_Psgr's comment, you bet that I mentioned this issue to the FA's. Their response was to indicate their frustration, and to tell me that even if they personally saw a blue-sleeved (indicating disability) pre-boarder get into one of the exit seats, they had no way to make them move, unless they met one of the specific restrictions printed on the information card. All that they could do would be to ask the passenger if s/he met the requirements to sit in the emergency exit row.

I'll just have to start by sending a friendly note to the FAA, which I discovered that anyone can do by simply going to this site (FAA comment page) and selecting "FAA" in the pulldown menu for "Operating Agency". There is nothing else to do on this first page except add your contact information (optional), and then hit the "continue" button at the bottom to actually get to a form in which you can leave a comment. I hope a few of the many folks who read this actually do leave a comment with the FAA.

Although extremely unlikely, I'd hate to imagine an incident in which some weak and infirm preboarder who decided to sit in the preboard row caused the death of anyone on board because they just could not get the emergency exit open in time in some real emergency. If that were to happen I'm sure the FAA would react immediately (and too late!) to make sure that no preboarders should be allowed to sit in emergency exit rows anymore (remember what it took to get oxygen canisters out of the stowage area - can anyone say "ValueJet"?). Too bad the FAA, like most gov't agencies, bows to the pressure of lobbyists rather than looking after the interest of the population at large.

'Nuff said. Send the FAA an email.

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

I don't recall which channel it was on...8 in Dallas I think (WFAA---the one that used to bring you 'Mr Peppermint')...a number of years ago - but I seem to recall Southwest having to defend itself in a lawsuit because one of the Flight Attendants made a blind (visually challenged) individual move.

This wasn't someone who'd ended up with a thick pair of glasses at TSO (Texas State Optical for the unitiated, frequently called "glasses for the masses").....this was a person with a seeing eye dog.

At any rate, before you traipse off and write the FAA, you might want to think abot redirecting your correspondence to Colleen. My guess is she is liable to do something.

 

[ECPaul]

I don't recall which channel it was on...8 in Dallas I think (WFAA---the one that used to bring you 'Mr Peppermint')...a number of years ago - but I seem to recall Southwest having to defend itself in a lawsuit because one of the Flight Attendants made a blind (visually challenged) individual move.

This wasn't someone who'd ended up with a thick pair of glasses at TSO (Texas State Optical for the unitiated, frequently called "glasses for the masses").....this was a person with a seeing eye dog.

At any rate, before you traipse off and write the FAA, you might want to think abot redirecting your correspondence to Colleen. My guess is she is liable to do something.

[post="271903"][/post]​

I'm sure I should know this, but who is "Colleen"?

 

[SWAFA30]

Colleen Barrett is the President of Southwest Airlines

http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/

 

[KCFlyer]

pre-boarder get into one of the exit seats, they had no way to make them move, unless they met one of the specific restrictions printed on the information card. All that they could do would be to ask the passenger if s/he met the requirements to sit in the emergency exit row.

[post="271892"][/post]​

Seems to me that a quick change to the contract of carriage, adding verbage that exit row seats "could not be occupied by those needing extra time/assistance to preboard the aircraft" should rectify the problem.

I luv SWA, but the only real complaint I have is preboards at MCO. When the call for preboards comes, mom, dad, the two teenagers and the six year old all head to the preboard line. I quit preboarding my kid when she was 3....she pretty much understood how to sit in an airline seat by that age.

ELP - speaking of Mr. Peppermint - I went to high school with a guy named "Gibby Haynes" - son of Mr. Peppermint. Do a google search on his name...Papa's so proud.l

 

[hp_fa]

At HP the FA's must verify that each person sitting in an exit row must be able to function in the event of an emergency.

 

[KCFlyer]

At HP the FA's must verify that each person sitting in an exit row must be able to function in the event of an emergency.

[post="271950"][/post]​

So does every other airline. It usually consists of asking "are you able and willing to assist in an emergency". The passenger usually replies "yes". Does HP do something different, like time them in the 40 yard dash, or does "verify" fall somewhere in what I described?