Qatar Looking at PIT

[zethya]

Qatar talking about starting Pittsburgh-Doha
http://news.investors.com/business/051315-752406-qatar-air-considering-expansion-to-smaller-us-airports.htm
 
Hard to believe they would start PIT, rather than CLT (if either), without significant AA connections. I can just see Parker doing a Seigel: "They are coming to kill us"  (Remember ?).

 

[700UW]

You do know Qatar is part owner of IAG, which is the parent company of BA and IB.

 

[robbedagain]

Would SJC let alone PIT have the traffic to justify a DOHA flight  even with a 787 or a 350

 

[zethya]

You do know Qatar is part owner of IAG, which is the parent company of BA and IB.

Don't know what that has to do with what I said, but the only OW (IAG) carrier in PIT or CLT is AA, to support connections. There is currently No JV between Qatar and AA. If this happens, it again highlights the case that the ME3 carriers are willing to take significant (really significant) losses to flood the U.S. market at the expense of the US3. What will be interesting, is to see what the reaction to such a move (PIT/CLT) would be from AA.  A concern would seem to be the potential loss of connection traffic from those cities to Asia via AA hubs. Now if there was an acceptable JV in place, that would be less, or no problem. 

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Al Baker is just screwing with DL.  He's got a lot of planes to put someplace.  The good Pittsburghers couldn't support direct flights to LHR/CDG/FRA yet they built a glorious new airport for a mismanaged airline.
 
Nothing to see here folks...

 

[robbedagain]

are you saying that DL PIT to CDG is not doing well?   

 

[PullUp]

are you saying that DL PIT to CDG is not doing well?   

Last I heard, DL took the subsidy guarantee (millions of $$) to keep the CDG service @PIT.
The flight used to originate in CVG, but I've lost track of how it is structured now.
Anyway, it has always originated somewhere else, flew to PIT, got gas and changed crew, then departed for Paris.
So the flight was not totally dependent on PIT to fill the seats, which it couldn't, thus the subsidies paid to DL.
Not a bad deal for and airline with too many airplanes...have someone else pay for them.

 

[robbedagain]

thanks  

 

[zethya]

Last I heard, DL took the subsidy guarantee (millions of $$) to keep the CDG service @PIT.
The flight used to originate in CVG, but I've lost track of how it is structured now.
Anyway, it has always originated somewhere else, flew to PIT, got gas and changed crew, then departed for Paris.
So the flight was not totally dependent on PIT to fill the seats, which it couldn't, thus the subsidies paid to DL.
Not a bad deal for and airline with too many airplanes...have someone else pay for them.

Actually the subsidy ended in 2011. I doubt the flight relies on anything other than PIT originating passengers, since the aircraft (757) originates/returns to JFK.

 

[MAH4546]

The flight has never originated anywhere but PIT. The planes comes from JFK.

 

[topDawg]

The flight has never originated anywhere but PIT. The planes comes from JFK.

and AFAIK the airplane itself has never come from anywhere other than JFK. Maybe a one off ATL flight 
they darn sure aren't flying CVG-PIT with a 757.... 

 

[WorldTraveler]

further, the flight is not subsidized any longer.

specific to the rumors of PIT and expansion of the ME3 in the US, it is absolutely true that QR and EK are both hellbent on adding as much capacity to the US before there are limitations put on them because of their subsidies.

it is also noteworthy that while EK came right out and denied that it has been subsidized, QR has not and has even tried to justify its subsidies because of "subsidies" which US carriers received.

problem is that what the ME3 call government subsidies - bankruptcy claims and pension termination - are not subsidies at all.

US chapter 11 of bankruptcy is a process that most countries don't have and they don't understand. Neither do a lot of Americans. C11 is a process of swapping debt for equity in a reorganized company. It doesn't involve the government and generally debts to the government cannot be reduced in BK claim and that is true for all types of BK.
Pension terminations are based on insurance which those plans have with the PBGC which is not subsidized by the government. All of the carriers that terminated plans in BK had to give up stock in their reorganized company to the PBGC as part of the termination process.

Further, anyone that received stock in any of the reorganized airlines in BK would have received a very nice return by this point.

I believe there was language inserted in some bill in Congress that requires that the Dept. of State and Transportation rule on the charges of subsidies by the ME3 within 90 days and that part of the requested relief which has been asked for by the US3 is that ME3 expansion in the US be stopped and they be forced to roll back their schedules to what they had on Jan 1, 2015 in order to prevent exactly this type of punitive addition of capacity because the US3 spoke out.

if that is the case, PIT won't happen and neither will ATL which QR announced.


and finally, AA and BA have both acknowledged that they do not agree on the ME3 and BA's stance carries no weight on AA's decision to oppose them. It is also no surprise that BA is not opposed to the ME3 since LHR has very little capacity to expand which limits the ME3's ability to grow in the UK's richest markets while AF, LH, and other continental Europe carriers are being hurt far more than BA by the ME3. Thus, BA is happy to not object to the ME3 because they are doing more damage to their competitors.

Execs from the US3 are supposed to speak on this issue today.

The issue of subsidies from the ME3 is not going away and has gained significant traction.

 

[zethya]

The flight has never originated anywhere but PIT. The planes comes from JFK.

 

Actually the subsidy ended in 2011. I doubt the flight relies on anything other than PIT originating passengers, since the aircraft (757) originates/returns to JFK.

 

[FWAAA]

Once AA converts the transatlantic 757s to lie-flat seats, I could see AA flying seasonally PIT-LHR and maybe PIT-CDG. One problem with LHR is that a 757 doesn't efficiently use the scarce LHR slots. Problem with CDG is that DL/AF have a hub at the other end, which probably improves its performance.

 

[WorldTraveler]

AA HAS used 757s to LHR; they were discontinued but it has been done. UA has 757s to LHR and DL has just added PHL-LHR 757 using the AA/US merger divestiture slot.

The chances that AA would start a point to point route (not from an AA hub in the US) to CDG is somewhere between zero and zilch. PIT-CDG works for DL because of the AF hub. AA would not try or succeed at trying to go up against DL/AF on a non-US hub route for AA or DL but with a JV partner for one on the other end.

The concept of AA flying PIT-LHR is no different from DL flying RDU-LHR; if DL ever starts RDU TATL service, AMS or CDG is far, far more likely. I could be proven wrong but DL on RDU-LHR seems more than a stretch up against AA/BA.