Ratification Odds

Connected1

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
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As the details come flooding in over the next hours and days, let''s hear your thoughts on whether these deals will be ratified by the membership here.
 
Aug 20, 2002
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On 3/31/2003 5:26:38 PM Connected1 wrote:

As the details come flooding in over the next hours and days, let''s hear your thoughts on whether these deals will be ratified by the membership here.

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Connected;
APA is a "no brainer". With the $$$ they make(AND DESERVE, IMHO), "2/3 of a loaf, is better than none". Meaning that they''ll have no problem coming up with 50% + 1 to pass this "POS" !!!!!!1

APFA(THE STRONGEST UNION on the property), would normally apply a T/A like this, to AA, like a "COLONOSCOPY", but IMHO I think they''ll pass this "CRAP", BUT just BARELY !!!!!!

(Ah, the weak sister TWU). Most FSC''s living in places like DF+W, or MIA, making $20.00 per hour, AND NO BENEFITS, will always vote YES.
AND,
as our good friend RV4(DAVE), has CORRECTLY shown us time and again,the majority of the AMT''s in "Okie-homa", are taught from birth, not to even think about gettin'' "UPPITY" !!!!!!

Just my opinion. (coupled with $ 3-4 will get you a "cold one", in most saloons) !!!!

NH/BB''s
 

Hopeful

Veteran
Dec 21, 2002
5,998
347
PASS
PASS
PASS

Pilots will fly more hours, paycut, layoffs, but pension untouched -PASS

F/A's will fly more hours, paycut, layoffs, but pension untouched -PASS

TWU paycut, holidays lost and reduced to 1.5X, sick day accrual reduced,
and a host of other goodies, but pension untouched - PASS

Now let's see what the management and non management take!

But don't forget the "GET RICH" equity stake to be announced!
 

Resman1

Member
Aug 29, 2002
44
0
I think they all will pass, however, it will all be in vain unless the company restructures our pricing model. Management must realize by now that in addition to UA, DL, CO and WN we also compete against the fax machine and video conferencing. No matter how many cuts, you cannot charge a 1200.00 ow walkup fare DFW-LGA and actually expect someone to pay it.
 

Hopeful

Veteran
Dec 21, 2002
5,998
347
Keep in mind, that if and/or when AA files bankruptcy, the first target will be the Pilot pension plan. Just like USAIR did! That''s the alternative to the pilots rejecting this T/A.
 
Aug 20, 2002
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On 4/1/2003 10:20:34 AM AA80Driver wrote:

I can''t speak for the other unions, but I don''t think the pilot''s deal passes. Management twisted the knife a little too much at the 11th hour and succeeded in getting APA to capitulate to numerous additional concessions on top of the 660M package. The relief package as APA presented it with perhaps a few changed probably would''ve passed. However the present deal is so ugly to so many people that it doesn''t stand much of a chance.

The showstopper is the amendable date: 5/1/09. Everyone knows the company is in trouble and the willingness to sacrifice is there...but not for the rest of the decade. Additionally it terminates the flowback to Eagle, unleases small jets with no concrete jobs for our 3,600 furloughed. The warts go on and on. BK will be better for the company and the workers in the long run.

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AA80Driver;
OK. I''ll go along with your hunch,(that we''d be better off in BK), ONLY if the war drags on, and EVERY AIRLINE, with the possible exceptions of WN and B6, all wind up in BK court. Then, in a weird sort of way, everybody starts out from square 1, therefore AA still remains # 1.

Like every other "GD" thing at AA,

Time will tell !

NH/BB''s
 

mistified

Advanced
Mar 31, 2003
193
75
My hunch is that the pilots will vote the TA down.
Earley indications show that the moderates and even
the usual "softies" are coming out of the woodwork
against this TA.
23% paycut and a six year contract?
What I am also hearing is that this TA would be
a slam dunk if the current management team was
replaced.
 

AA80Driver

Advanced
Jan 16, 2003
111
0
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On 4/1/2003 10:49:06 AM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:

AA80Driver;
OK. I''ll go along with your hunch,(that we''d be better off in BK), ONLY if the war drags on, and EVERY AIRLINE, with the possible exceptions of WN and B6, all wind up in BK court. Then, in a weird sort of way, everybody starts out from square 1, therefore AA still remains # 1.

Like every other "GD" thing at AA,

Time will tell !

NH/BB''s

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IMO, BK will result in shared pain accross the board--labor, creditors, vendors, mgmt, a change in the management team, potential for employee ownership, and the potential for resolution in a more positive economic climate than exists at the current moment.

An 1113 filing in BK carries some risk of more draconian working conditions than the current TA contains, but that is far from certain and no one can accurately predict it.
 

AA80Driver

Advanced
Jan 16, 2003
111
0
I can''t speak for the other unions, but I don''t think the pilot''s deal passes. Management twisted the knife a little too much at the 11th hour and succeeded in getting APA to capitulate to numerous additional concessions on top of the 660M package. The relief package as APA presented it with perhaps a few changed probably would''ve passed. However the present deal is so ugly to so many people that it doesn''t stand much of a chance.

The showstopper is the amendable date: 5/1/09. Everyone knows the company is in trouble and the willingness to sacrifice is there...but not for the rest of the decade. Additionally it terminates the flowback to Eagle, unleases small jets with no concrete jobs for our 3,600 furloughed. The warts go on and on. BK will be better for the company and the workers in the long run.
 

Winglet

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,377
15
www.usaviation.com
Predict a no vote. Carty, Brundage, et al don''t have a clue as to how to save the airline. They are WAY out of their league competence-wise, as are most airline CEOs. That is, execept, for their ability to loot the company by paying themselves EVERYTHING upfront, like Delta''s Mullin, et al.

Those 3000+ furloughees aren''t EVER coming back. AMR will migrate domestic flying to Eagle and kill whatever screds of scope are left. In fact, there will be more furloughs and the pension will be attacked next and in full force.

This industry is D-E-A-D.
 
Aug 20, 2002
664
50
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On 4/1/2003 10:20:34 AM AA80Driver wrote:

Additionally it terminates the flowback to Eagle, unleases small jets with no concrete jobs for our 3,600 furloughed.

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A previous ALPA hotline mentioned that the APA proposal provided for A/A pilots to fly Eagle aircraft. Was that untrue?
 
OP
C

Connected1

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
332
0
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On 4/1/2003 10:03:39 AM mistified wrote:

What I am also hearing is that this TA would be
a slam dunk if the current management team was
replaced.
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Replaced with a bunch of pilots, that is. It looks like the pilots have a good chance of being the ones to pull the "stunt" that I alluded to in another thread. My guess is that the faction of pilots that wanted to buy the company have not changed their minds, and would rather see the company in bankruptcy so that they will have their chance.
 

luv2fly

Veteran
Aug 21, 2002
1,187
0
www.usaviation.com
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On 4/1/2003 10:09:06 AM Hopeful wrote:

Keep in mind, that if and/or when AA files bankruptcy, the first target will be the Pilot pension plan. Just like USAIR did! That''s the alternative to the pilots rejecting this T/A.

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Keep in mind that the pension plan at US was only terminated because the union agreed to it. The BK judge mandated that the pension issue had to resolved, so while AA management may target the pension, it will most defenitely prove to be a difficult target to ahcieve. So in reality, that is not the alternative to voting the TA down.
 

mistified

Advanced
Mar 31, 2003
193
75
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On 4/1/2003 2:10:32 PM Connected1 wrote:


Replaced with a bunch of pilots, that is. It looks like the pilots have a good chance of being the ones to pull the "stunt" that I alluded to in another thread. My guess is that the faction of pilots that wanted to buy the company have not changed their minds, and would rather see the company in bankruptcy so that they will have their chance.


Wow
Some serious accusations on your part!
Do you have first hand knowledge of this?
Were you at any of the EBO meetings?

What''s your roll at AMR Connected1?
 

Mach85ER

Veteran
Jan 13, 2003
1,089
413
IMHO, Pilots vote NO.

This turd is just a set-up to blame the coming bankruptcy on the pilots.
Don will slide the pension elimination when he files for Sec 113 within 2 months.

I''ll reserve final judgment after comparing the final package to the U and UAL deals, but the highlights look far worse than UAL''s recent TA.

A 23% paycut doesn''t sound to devastating at first glance. For many guys like me, the drop is far worse due to seat loss,(two downgrades for me). The TA puts my 2003-2004 spending power 49 percent less than my 2001 income. Along with 2500 junior guys, the "NO" votes will vastly outnumber the lineholders who don''t lose their seats and are only looking at a 23% cut.

Carty''s leadership has been a black hole since he became CEO. Nothing has escaped it; money, reputation, service and morale.