This article ran in The New York Times today. It is long but alot to think about.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/business...oney/26lou.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/business...oney/26lou.html
Real Life After Layoff
- Thread starter ICEMAN
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eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
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The book is about a year too late for the NWA mechanics to have read before their ill-advised strike, but there's still time for others to learn from the mistakes at UAL.
It's a far different world for negotiating than it was 20 years ago.
Bagbelt
Senior
- Apr 3, 2004
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- 6
There is money out there, however not everyone who is skilled is necessarilly at the right place at the right time. Most skilled trades pay near what they were making- if you are given several years time to work up the totem pole. But the time lost obviuosly can't be replaced. However, the NWA situation was different. There was no pretense at trying to reach accomodation. If your only option is to vote yourself out of a job or take a paycut that will bring you to what you were making 15 years ago- what is the answer?
Or AA mechanics could of taken the stand and struck AA in 2003 when the so-called Vermont plan was put in place in the so-called BK filing and the NWA mechanics would have never met the so-called "ill-advised strike." Then it would have been a far different world for negotiations for the airlines. But being that we pay dues to company paid company men, that just didn't happen.
Maybe that would have worked, and then again, maybe AA's heavy airframe maintenance department would resemble that of UAL's by now. Depending on whether you're line maintenance or overhaul, you might get different answers about how desirable that outcome would have been.
I know several former IND UA mechanics who would give their left one to be working at TULE for what AA's AMTs earn.
The answer is either hold on and hope or leave the airline industry. Or combine the two and learn and study and get qualified while you hold on and hope. That way, at least, you will have a paycheck and benefits while you are packing your parachute. The time is coming when only the lower end of the competence pool will be here. All the talent will leave. Or, if you're old like me, just hang on and hope our retirement isn't gutted any more.
Hackman
Veteran
- Sep 30, 2003
- 3,997
- 898
Ill-advised? Scab Air wanted this strike by not negotiating what-so-ever with AMFA. They decided they would attempt force their hand, much like they are doing now with the other unions and risking more strikes.
The mistakes at UAL were made by moronic management business decisions like Avolar, Ted, and management bonuses that drove the airline into BK. Management pissed away billions in employee concessions while they enriched themselves. The front line employees keep giving, and management keeps taking.
There are no negotiations with the BK judges and the government in big moneys back pocket. It is a far different world today.....management greed has gotten much worse. :down: :angry:
Uh-oh. While I agree with the above, I hope certain pompous blowhards who hang out on the UAL board (and insist on spreading their drivel to the WN board as well) don't see the above. Red-flag words like "moronic" will surely bring them out to show all of the rest of us how ill-informed we are and how superior their blinding intellects are...
And maybe not.
The fact is that AA already had, and has had for over 10 years, the low labor rates of outfits such as Timco etc but they have the added benifit of quality control too.
I dont think that AA would have gotten rid of overhaul even if we had rejected the concessions, all you have to do is look at the 2001 contract.
Prior to all the concessions starting rate for an OSM was just $10.77 an hour, or about the same(if not less) as you would pay one of the day laborers from outside the local 7-11. Benifits only add 9% to the total, we know this because thats the rate the company quotes for UBP and in order for them to be in compliance with Taft-Hartley and sect 152 of the RLA the company can not financially support union activities.
So if AA got rid of OH, either before or after concessions, they would have been giving away one of the things that gave them a big competitive ege over other carriers.
Timco and the other providers do that work for a profit, AA can do it in house at cost and bring in for-profit work, thus offsetting their MX costs even more and giving themselves even more of a competitive edge.
AS UAL, USAIR and others send their airplanes out, have somebody earn a profit off them, then having to deal with the product they put out, not only is AA not supporting another company's bottom line but they can bring in work and have other airlines support their bottom line.
One of the things that everyone has to remember is that even in BK all the other carriers were trying to do was get the same cost savings that AA has enjoyed for nearly 20 years. AA had he advantage of easing in their SRPs/OSMS through attrition, the other airlines would have had to cut veteran employees pay by around 60% in order to try and realize AAs cost advantage. While other carriers had 5 year progressions to top, AA/TWU effectively put in 15 year progressions while claiming to have 5 year progressions like everyone else.
We often hear pro-concession TWU supporters compare AA OH to the lack of SWA OH but thats an unfair comparasion. AA already has the facilities in place along with the volume of work. While SWA may now have the volume of work they dont have the facilities nor do they have a skilled workforce in place to take all their work in house.
Some will say that AA was paying as much per hour as other carriers but the fact is that overall costs at AA have been lower for a long time. While the top out numbers may have been close the fact is that at AA over the last twenty years it took much longer to top out than it did at most of their competitors. When UAL took 5 years AA took 12, and the steps were end loaded, just like the OSMs were. In the first 3 years the OSMs would go up less than $1/yr, then for the next five years slightly over $1/yr, then the last raise was just shy of five dollars. This allowed AA and the TWU to claim that if you became an OSM you would be making $24.76, well above the starting rate at TIMCO. Since Timco is non-union we only really hear about the starting rates, we dont know the top rates. So they compare our top out rates to their starting rates and give misleading figures.
The fact is that AA even had lower overall rates for OH than TWA, due to the OSMs. Thats why they shrunk MCI down as much as they did. I doubt that the company ever really considered getting rid of overhaul come BK, Vermont Plan or hell or high water.Even before BK they had it better than any of the majors, and they enjoyed that advantage at least as far back as 1995 with the introduction of SRPs.
ronaldl79
Member
I read this a few days ago ... it only confirms what I've long felt about following tradition ... in anything.
Bob, you leave out one important detail. That is that when they first opened up the SRP/OSM classification positions in the mid 1990s, they were filled mostly with ramp employees who were slotted in with whatever they were making on the ramp. I worked with quite a few on the ramp that were making about $15-$17/hr back then and they went to AFW and started as an OSM/SRP with their current ramp pay. Therefore, a large number of them didn't start at the bottom of the OSM/SRP scale. Many of them ended up getting their A&Ps and of course got the license premiums.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,988
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So, the SRP/OSM classification essentially became a way for developing/recruiting people to become AMT's from within? Nobody ever mentions that aspect about it -- all we hear on this board is how it eliminated AMT jobs.
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
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The SRP/OSM classification alone cost thousands of jobs
since its inception, more and more mechanic jobs have been transferred to this lesser paid title. Couple this aspect up with the fact that thousands of mechanics are on layoff, do you really think that when an OSM gets his/her license, there is going to ba a mechanics job waiting for him or her?
By the way, there haven't been a whole lot of SRP/OSM's upgrading to licensed A&P.
There are some people that I used to work with on the ramp that became OSMs/SRPs; then they became A&Ps and at this moment they are still A&Ps for American Airlines in AFW and are not on layoff status. Of all the ones I knew who went as SRPs and OSMs, about half got their A&Ps and are still working at AA now.
Many(not all) of those upgraders are on the front line of this "get in bed with the company" mentality that exist in overhaul. For some reason, the upgraders were always the most loyal twu members and as a result, now loyal company men.
