Reasons Not To Give

diogenes

Veteran
Aug 22, 2002
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For a little background, please read topics "Show me the Money" and "Area of Concession".

The point of those two topics is there are and have been means for the company to operate more efficiently, and save money. The company has not availed itself of those methods.

1. Overtime - Management has the responsibilities for determining overtime, calling it out, and administrating it. They routinely fail in all three areas. Yet they never held themselves accountable or responsible. They hated paid bypass because for once, they were held accountable for their actions, and there was a pricetag. Yet even managers that ran up some high tabs due to sheer incompetence were never disciplined. The company absorbed the costs of bypass rather than do so, and lie in wait for the first chance to abolish it. It was high on the concessions list.

You have to ask yourselves, if an employee group were costing the company millions thru incompetence, what would be the results then?

In effect, on this issue - and it is indicative of larger ones - the company is saying, we are too lazy and arrogant to perform our duties correctly, we will not be accountable to the likes of employees, and we want employees to bear the costs of our sloth. And even better, even though we are setting a piss-poor example by doing this, we WILL sit in harsh judgement of any error employees make.


2. Cross-utilization - the company loves the union bogeyman - that bad ole' union is why we're losing money. I beg to differ. Cross-utilization has been available to the company pre-and post contracts, and they have sole discretion to excercise it. They never have, yet they keep coming here and whining 'work rules.' Hey, howzabout usin' whatcha got for a change?

Again, the company is too lazy or incompetent to use this flexibility, which would save them millions.

So now, the main points.

The company is losing money for two reasons. We have a failed business plan, and in order for it to be viable, employees would have to subsidize it at a rate most would find unacceptable. And we inefficiently execute the plan that we have, witness the ot and cross-utilization issues. It has been said a well executed mediocre plan is better than a poorly executed superior plan. We have neither.

No employee wants to see this company fail. We are honorably doing our part. But we can't do it alone.

Last point. Continued concessions are like someone going back to an abusive spouse. What do you think is going to change?

OK, rant off, and thank you for your time.


--------------------

I am a former employee of a former airline
 
UNION LEADERSHIP LISTEN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHATEVER IT IS YOU DO, YOU DO THIS!!!!!!!!!

MANAGEMENT GETS ABSOLUTELY NO BONUSES UNTIL THE AIRLINE SHOWS A PROFIT FOR AT LEAST 2 QUARTERS ANDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

ALL EMPLOYEE GROUPS GET BACK WHAT THEY GAVE UP!!!!!!!!

IT IS ONLY FAIR
 
repeet said:
I'll second that!
you can then say bye bye to your jobs! there aren't any jobs out there with the benefits i bet you get now or most of you would have quit by now. better to keep the decent job and look with no pressure than to be thrust on the market looking for anything.
i checked the DOT stats, U has about 94 employees per airplane and LUv 79.
you will have to lop off more folks unfortunately. :(
 
skyflyr69 said:
you can then say bye bye to your jobs! there aren't any jobs out there with the benefits i bet you get now or most of you would have quit by now. better to keep the decent job and look with no pressure than to be thrust on the market looking for anything.
i checked the DOT stats, U has about 94 employees per airplane and LUv 79.
you will have to lop off more folks unfortunately. :(
skyflyr69,

I agree with you, and I wonder how many of these folks have really looked for a job out there? It is a sobering exercise, and one I would recommend for all, especially the most vocal on this board.

I have said over and over; if it is so bad here, leave. The fact is, this is so far better than anything out there; yet we complain, we are angry, we point fingers, and so on.

We have 94 employees per airplane SWA 79...duh...thats a problem. We must fix that...somehow. I wonder where the excess is and how to address it?

The unions job (I an a BIG supporter of my union and unions in general) is to protect jobs, so this issue is a tough one; however, one way or another we will get there. We have to find a way to get that ratio down, that 16% more manpower than the competition.

My choice would be add aircraft, and absorb those folks. Lets see, to get financing we must do something to change our financial situation...ah, become more productive...duh.

This whole situation is a no-brainer.

Here is the choice...become more producive and absorb 16% of the labor overage by adding aircraft...or lose 100% of the jobs here.

Gee, what should we do, what should we do....ah lets point fingers and be mad, do nothing, wish it will go away....

This is so clear it is like looking at a painting on the wall....
 
You are both missing the point. Time and time again we suffer and give and gvie and give to only have them take huge bonuses.

I will give......but they WILL NOT GET BONUSES UNTIL THEY EARN IT. Thus, far they haven't earned jack!!!!

Give your whole pay check if you think hanging on to a job for what we will soon be earning then. Depending on who you are YES THERE ARE JOBS OUT THERE. They aren't going to fall into your lap...you must look for them.
 
Twicebaked said:
You are both missing the point. Time and time again we suffer and give and gvie and give to only have them take huge bonuses.

I will give......but they WILL NOT GET BONUSES UNTIL THEY EARN IT. Thus, far they haven't earned jack!!!!

Give your whole pay check if you think hanging on to a job for what we will soon be earning then. Depending on who you are YES THERE ARE JOBS OUT THERE. They aren't going to fall into your lap...you must look for them.
Twice,

I agree with your bonus statement.

Also your right, there are jobs out there; unfortunately, they are entry level positions, and in the vast marority of cases, folks here will be far better off sticking around.
 
Twicebaked wrote:

"I will give......but they WILL NOT GET BONUSES UNTIL THEY EARN IT. Thus, far they haven't earned jack!!!!"


I don't understand this logic? You're all over the boards literary screaming DON'T give, but then I read here; "I will give" and tie it into no bonuses. Either you give you or don't, what does bonus have to do with it? Bonuses will have no effect on anyone other the recipients themselves. They can say all day long they agree with about not giving bonuses then turn around and make you Thricebaked instead...I mean look at their track record. You can't hold half ground with this bunch, it's all or nothing.......and it's also everyone’s individual choice and no amount of screaming on these boards will influence a soul.

Personally, I think ALPA will crack and the other unions will tell their members the woe stories of how we all too must crack lest we perish.


I gave twice...willingly like a fool, and will not make that error in judgment a third time. Let the chips fall where they may..
 
Cav,

I agree.

Bonuses are tied to "personal performances" starting in 2004. This management gve up their 2003 bonuses as part of concession #2.

Asking the employees for more give backs and concessions, no matter what form it is in, Bonuses for these senior rexecs should not have any consideration until labor contact amendable dates in 2009.

Like it, or lump it.

Use Your Head,

Case in point on another thread...typical union busting technique to tell folks how difficult the real world is out there without U, and that any other jobs out there is just "entry level"....so typical! So, your thoughts are, hey, just give in even if this job "mirror's" entry level. Just keep lowering that bar.

You sound panicky.....you need to get your resume polished up.
 
Twicebaked :up:

I did NOT vote for concessions-

1- when you have financial woes do you seek outside help or remedy it
yourself?

2- Cry and complain?

3- Figure it out and SOLVE it YOURELF_---CCY this last one is directed to you!!!


I REST MY CASE>>>>>

Stop pointing fingers and use what you are being paid the big bucks for-

IF YA CAN'T_ RESIGN>

I wish we had Gordon Bethune....
 
We have 94 employees per airplane SWA 79...duh...thats a problem. We must fix that...somehow. I wonder where the excess is and how to address it?

Please quote your source for these numbers. The number are much closer to 89.88. These number are based on the following: 33,705 employees and 375 airplanes. These numbers are the last reported by LUV.

US has 37,100 employees as of thier last report. I cannot find thier current aircraft count.
 
Cav,

Everyone reaches a point of level. Do I REALLY want to give? Hell NO.

Did Bronner invest without having some type of return on his investment? HELL NO.

My point is that we may not have a choice. Majority of membership rules.

I am only saying that can swallow it if I am assured that there will be NO BONUSES for some time to come. Until all of us get ALL OF OUR WAGES RETURNED TO WHERE THEY SHOULD BE.

My favorite stance that I WOULD WITHOUT A DOUBT GIVE is concessions with Dave's RESIGNATION AT THE COMMENCEMENT OF SUCH CONCESSION.

It is a price I personally might consider. Sometimes you have to pay for what you really want.

I want DAVE GONE YESTERDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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