Recent ALPA Communications

[USA320Pilot]

MEC Chairman’s Message - May 12, 2007

This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a Chairman's message to the pilots for Saturday, May 12th.

Yesterday I participated in two conference calls in dealing with the aftermath of the Nicolau award. Your MEC and committee chairmen met telephonically with members of our Critical Incident Response Program (CIRP). The CIRP volunteers have been in our crew rooms this week talking with our crews and offering support during these most stressful times. Following that call, the MEC convened a conference call to further discuss and strategize our response to the devastation created by the award.

Your MEC leadership remains solely focused right now on appealing the award as well as carrying out the resolutions that were passed at our MEC meeting earlier last week. Two of our Merger Committee members were subsequently pulled from initial training classes in preparation for the upcoming presentation to ALPA’s Executive Council now scheduled for 1:00 p.m. on Monday, May 21st at the ALPA offices in Herndon , VA. At that time our Merger Committee and counsel will formally make the case to ALPA’s Executive Council that the Nicolau award fails to comply with ALPA merger policy. The Executive Council is comprised of our National Officers along with ALPA’s Executive Vice Presidents. This governing body has the ultimate responsibility of interpreting the policies of our union.

In order to continue developing our strategy and to receive a progress report from our Merger Committee, I have called for a special MEC conference call meeting for this Monday, May 14th. On this call we will have the opportunity to review our strategy and the MEC will have the opportunity to add their input to the executive council presentation.

In our efforts to leave no stone unturned, I want you to know that I will continue to contact all our National Officers as well as other members of the Executive Council to communicate to them the gravity of our situation as well as discussing with them the myriad of contradictions in the award and the dire consequences that may likely arise if our injustice is not adequately addressed.

I and your MEC have also been trying to respond to the numerous calls and emails that we’ve received since the award was published. If I haven't been able to get back to you, it's not for the lack of trying. My number one concern right now is preparing for our presentation to the Executive Council and making sure the rest of our union knows and understands the travesty that has befallen us. But know that I have listened to your messages I have read your emails and I will make every effort to provide each of you a response.

Know that your MEC has considered and will continue to consider many options and approaches in developing our response to the arbitrator’s ruling. You have my commitment that no stone will be left unturned in trying to right this terrible wrong. We will communicate the disposition of our appeal to the Executive Council as soon as it is available to us.

In the meantime, continue to look out for each other out there. And as always, fly safe and thanks for listening.

BOS LEC F/O REpresentative Update - May 12, 2007

BOS Pilots,

John Prater's letter (copied below), along with the fact that the Executive Council has given us no more than 30 minutes to present our entire case, tells me that ALPA International may very well wash their hands of this one.

There are some who say..."If only we were unified..." Well, we are unified, and have been for a long time now. The MEC, the Merger Committee, and this pilot group has insisted on a DOH based seniority integration from day one, and there has been absolutely no wavering from that position. And today, this MEC, this Merger Committee, and this pilot group is similarly unified in our complete repudiation of the arbitrator's award.

But I'm not here to blow smoke up anyone's skirt. Unified or not, it appears to me the Executive Council (made up of the ALPA Officers and the Executive Vice Presidents, with AWA represented by an EVP who is a pilot from their airline but with AAA not having any pilot from our airline who is an EVP) has agreed to hear both us and AWA as a courtesy only, because they "feel our pain." And that's about all they will do.

Why? Because we may very well be integrating with any one of them in the near future, and would they really want to be supporting a DOH position for the AAA pilot group back at their respective airlines?

ALPA International is thus being put to the test, and their actions, or inactions, may very well lead to their decertification on this property. Are they really a Union, dedicated to the advancement and well-being of all, or they nothing more than a collection of disparate airlines, each looking out for only themselves, and what's best for them in any future mergers.

We shall soon see.

In Solidarity,

Garland

CC: MEC

Enclosures: Letter to the AWA and AAA Pilots from Captain John Prater (May 11, 2007).

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

"Are they really a Union, dedicated to the advancement and well-being of all, or they nothing more than a collection of disparate airlines, each looking out for only themselves, and what's best for them in any future mergers."

Yes.

 

[767jetz]

This governing body has the ultimate responsibility of interpreting the policies of our union.

John Prater's letter (copied below), along with the fact that the Executive Council has given us no more than 30 minutes to present our entire case, tells me that ALPA International may very well wash their hands of this one.

...the Merger Committee, and this pilot group has insisted on a DOH based seniority integration from day one, and there has been absolutely no wavering from that position.

...it appears to me the Executive Council ... has agreed to hear both us and AWA as a courtesy only...

...we may very well be integrating with any one of them in the near future, and would they really want to be supporting a DOH position for the AAA pilot group?

Are they really a Union, dedicated to the advancement and well-being of all, or they nothing more than a collection of disparate airlines, each looking out for only themselves, and what's best for them in any future mergers.

I'm so glad you post this stuff, because it just goes to show everyone how self-centered and single-minded your group is. It also proves that the idea of overturning this binding arbitration, that clearly abides by ALPA merger policy, is a futile effort.

By your MEC's own admission, they "insist" on a DOH award and refuse to "waiver" from this demand. This is exactly what got you in trouble at each and every juncture.

It also proves my previous assertion that the AAA MEC is salivating over the chance to try to repair the hard luck your careers have endured in the next merger, on the backs of another ALPA group.

The last paragraph quoted really kills me though. YES, ALPA is "dedicated to the advancement and well-being of all." ALPA merger policy and this award protects the majority of ALPA members and is considered fair by everyone except the East guys. DOH is only supported by a small minority of the collective. Are we to change all that just for a small, minority group of unreasonable, rigid, malcontents who lack the integrity to follow the laws of their union when they no longer suit them? wouldn't this be akin to "looking out for only themselves?" What hypocrites!

DOH is not supported by anyone except some East pilots like yourself. When would now be a good time to grasp reality and get over it?

 

[USA320Pilot]

767jetz,

Guess what? With the possibility of a United and Continental merger I have heard that the United MEC would now like DOH re-inserted inot the ALPA Merger Policy. Furthermore, there has been more than one conversation within the ALPA Exeuctive Council this week about changing ALPA Merger Policy back to DOH.

I believe, I could be srong, but I believe every other union at US Airways-America West is merging their lists DOH and every airline uses their DOH seniority to bid their equipment, bid their schedules, bid their vacation, or etc.

Seniority rules the industry and it's the United pilots who cuased this problem in the 90's after the failed United-US Airways merger attempt led by Gerry Greenwald.

Guess what - if United and US Airways ever try to merge again guess what that will be like...

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[nycbusdriver]

767jetz,

Guess what? With the possibility of a United and Continental merger I have heard that the United MEC would now like DOH re-inserted inot the ALPA Merger Policy. Furthermore, there has been more than one conversation within the ALPA Exeuctive Council this week about changing ALPA Merger Policy back to DOH.

I believe, I could be srong, but I believe every other union at US Airways-America West is merging their lists DOH and every airline uses their DOH seniority to bid their equipment, bid their schedules, bid their vacation, or etc.

Seniority rules the industry and it's the United pilots who cuased this problem in the 90's after the failed United-US Airways merger attempt led by Gerry Greenwald.

Guess what - if United and US Airways ever try to merge again guess what that will be like...

Regards,

USA320Pilot

IF the Nicolau disgrace ever gets implemented, changing the policy to DOH now might not help at all. I believe one of the underlying policies of any ALPA integration is that no pilot on one company's list can be moved out of sequence with the rest of the pilots on that same list during the process of integration. IOW, negotiating, mediating, or arbitrating a list cannot "reshuffle the deck" of either list in the process.

We HAVE seen a history on this property of a successful court-ordered "shuffling of the deck" as regards to a successful discrimination lawsuit (based on racial factors.) It matters not whether one agrees with that court's order, but the fact that a federal court ordered the rearranging of pilots on our list MAY give us a case law basis for a discrimination lawsuit based on age.

Of course, I have NO IDEA if the east MEC has thought of this. I hope they're paying attention. There is case law out there for this based on discrimination. And Nicolau's disgrace screams of age discrimination, even if he never intentionally or consciously considered that factor.

 

[73320]

This is getting tiresome. East MEC went for a clearly unattainable all or nothing DOH and lost. Now they want to negotiate. Failing that we will pick up our marbles and go home. Lashing out at any and all in the vicinty. The problem for the east has been and continues to be those elements backing the DOH mantra.

ALPA national is not the problem, the east leadership is the problem. Merger protocol is not the problem, reasonable utilization and application was. As a junior west Capt. I have and continue to have great empathy for your plight. Due to the nature of said plight, US Air is the only major airline that a majority of our pilots never applied to for employment. Why? It appeared to be a huge mess. 95% of west pilots did not want the merger on the day it was announced. Ill bet 95% would still call it off now.

Most of us would never consider bidding east, some will as they commute, some east will bid west. Even if I could bid #1 in any of your bases I would still not go. No matter how much flack you can hurl at me and my comrades, I will still not go. I have no desire, and even if I did I will not do so for professional courtesy. Perhaps rather than try to renegotiate what you were unwilling to negotiate you might try to get this idea into your thick skulls - the vast majority on the west want nothing to do with the east slots. In fact most of us hope that the award turns out as if you were awarded fences and that your movement in your bases is relatively unimpeded with this award.

I will have no sympathy for those forces trying to bring the house down over this other than for the vast majority of east pilots with which I have spoken, and who do understand the dynamics of the two lists. Yes I agree fencing for your attrition was the righteous moral outcome, but you would not entertain such thoughts, nor would you likely be willing to come to an agreement on numbers or duration of fences. Why? Because you think you are entitled to extend your pre-merger seniority to post merger which would be most detrimental to the west. A stagnant west group is very palatable for you who have suffered greatly, and more than reasonable in your view. In our view that is the west suffering greatly and we defended ourselves from this outcome and won - rightly so in our view.

Once again the vast majority of us on the west felt no great joy over the award. Only relief. Pre merger I expected to slowly move up the west list, and that is my current expectation. I have not even done any analysis of the list other than to see that someone is between myself and my classmate. Why? Because the award changes nothing for me. I hope that the vast majority of east pilots has a similar outcome and your advancement in your bases and equipment is relatively unchanged.

Reasonable east pilots it is time for you to finally reign in the elements of your leadership that seems to lead you off the cliff. There will be no joy for us westies if they lead you off the cliff and all flying goes west if management decides cutting you off like a cancer is the way to go. We will all be much better off in the long run if can close ranks with reasonable leadership. Good luck to us all!

 

[ussnark]

I hope that the vast majority of east pilots has a similar outcome and your advancement in your bases and equipment is relatively unchanged.

With the east experiences in DOH and slotting, believe me their rancor has a stable and completely factual basis in reality.

Your initial assertion that the east advocated DOH is incorrect.

No easties wanted DOH without conditions and restrictions. Many imagined a fence high enough to warrant its own prohibited area around PHX and LAS. Not slotting.

Imagine that if this ill-conceived horse pocky goes through then every "wholly owned" commuter will file single carrier status with their owners. If an FO, you could find yourself junior to a 70 hour wonder copilot, CO could be junior to a 1500 hour captain.

You and your short-sighted compatriots comments are exhibit one as to why experience is so essential to any merger, experience that can only be truly measured through DOH.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Ussnark's comments are accurate. The vast majority of the East pilots have no interest in PHX and LAS flying and only want to keep their flying and not give up their attrition.

To prevent an ALPA decertification on both the East and West properties, an NMB representational election with a union imposed on the West pilots, and a long drawn out war between the pilot groups the simple answer is to negotiate fences.

The East MEC believes it holds a lot of leverage and if the West pilots want an integrated list and joint contract negotiations to continue, then all the West needs to do is reach an agreement with the East on fences.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Busdrvr]

767jetz,

Guess what? With the possibility of a United and Continental merger I have heard that the United MEC would now like DOH re-inserted inot the ALPA Merger Policy. Furthermore, there has been more than one conversation within the ALPA Exeuctive Council this week about changing ALPA Merger Policy back to DOH.

I believe, I could be srong, but I believe every other union at US Airways-America West is merging their lists DOH and every airline uses their DOH seniority to bid their equipment, bid their schedules, bid their vacation, or etc.

Seniority rules the industry and it's the United pilots who cuased this problem in the 90's after the failed United-US Airways merger attempt led by Gerry Greenwald.

Guess what - if United and US Airways ever try to merge again guess what that will be like...

Regards,

USA320Pilot

I keep hearing the "UAL changed the merger policy" stuff banteed about. Could you please link us to a credible source that backs it up? It doesn't seem to be true since there were plenty of mergers that didn't go that way prior to 1995 (National/Pan Am). And for the record, you are wrong. UAL had some guys on the property who came over from the Pan Am purchase who had SUPERSENIORITY, ie they were ABOVE their original hire date. I'd also argue that prior to dereg, it made more sense. But if true...

YOU ONLY HAVE YOURSELF TO BLAME!!

Had you STFU during the previous two merger attempts with UAL and come to the table with a reasonable pre-nup, there's a good chance you'd be in that 777 today. But you couldn't. You had to make an @ss of yourself on every public board around. Imagine if we had been a unified group. Dubo WANTED the merger. His only requirement was the prenup. So to the Easties that want someone to blame, look to a few of your more vocal ******* like USA320 and Flylow.

And just for clarification, if UAL merges with CAL, I want the same relative seniority I have now with some reasonable fences or adjustments for the differences in WB flying. If that means I'm behind a guy hired after me at CAL, SO BE IT. They chose wisely, and I could have put my apps in. What you expect is for a guy who quit U for better ops at AWA to go behind one of his U classmates who couldn't get hired at AWA.

If UAL were to merge with U, it looks more like it would be an asset purchase. Go ahead, burn it down. Let us know how that works for you.

 

[700UW]

320,

When are you going to stop posting false information?

Your pilot groups are one under the NMB rules, the East cant impose a new union on the West.

Both groups are counted in the 50%+1 total card count to force an election and change unions.

You keep posting the same bull feces information and you are totally wrong.

Do I have to keep posting the samething on every thread where you threaten to impose a new union?

That is not how the process works under the RLA, take the time to educate yourself instead of posting empty threats and making yourself look like more of a fool than you all ready are.

Don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[EastUS]

"Both groups are counted in the 50%+1 total card count to force an election and change unions."

..And the east far outnumbers the west..what's your point?

"Do I have to keep posting the samething on every thread where you threaten to impose a new union?"

Only so long as you feel the obsessive need (without doubt for your personal benefit) to foster Alpa up as a "good thing" I guess.

 

[700UW]

Just stating the facts on the process, he keeps posting false information to try and scare the west pilots.

He has no clue of the RLA and union elections, everyone of his posts prove that.

 

[EastUS]

"He has no clue of the RLA and union elections, everyone of his posts prove that."

Not arguing but:

It is agreed that a 51% vote dumps Alpa though.

 

[700UW]

Not 51%, it is 50%+1 vote.

 

[73320]

Ussnark's comments are accurate. The vast majority of the East pilots have no interest in PHX and LAS flying and only want to keep their flying and not give up their attrition.

To prevent an ALPA decertification on both the East and West properties, an NMB representational election with a union imposed on the West pilots, and a long drawn out war between the pilot groups the simple answer is to negotiate fences.

The simple answer WAS to negotiate fences. Ex post facto - "I dont like the ruling now lets be reasonable" is not going to happen. You will realize fences by the simple fact that most of us in the west dont want your attrition either and in fact think you should rightly capture it. Decertification and imposing anything and threats of war will likely continue to produce the same results you have experienced to date. Once again I empathize with your plight over the past decade or so, and despite your previous and continued unwillingness to negotiate and accept, I still hope that all east pilots move up in east bases and a/c as if you had fences that you now want to negotiate.