Republican controlled house says.."DEFUND Obamacare, or we're SHUTTING the GOVT. DOWN "

http://news.yahoo.com/house-votes-derail-obamacare-fund-government-152544862-politics.html

(Nothing to see here 'southwind. This is an INTELLIGENT Conversation/Topic, move along) !


230 Republican members voted to DEFY the United States Supreme Court Ruling, and IF they didn't get thier way, then THEY would Vote (TAKE THIER BALL and GO HOME) so no one could play !

2 3 0 members !!!!

BUT, further analysis reveals MORE.

Of the 230,...."ONE HALF" ,(115)....reside 'South of the Mason Dixon Line' .

I never realized that Human Beings living in these states did not have Deadly physical conditions that would have desperately needed health care, but alas, they couldn't have bought it with GOLD(even if they had GOLD) because of a PREXISTING CONDITION !

I never realized that the hospitals in those state were comfortable with desperate people 'jamming up' thier EMEG. Wards !

PS,
Bye the way, does anyone know what NEWT/'95 is saying about strategy like this ?

(Move Along..'southwind. NOTHING to see here) !
 
230 Republican members voted to DEFY the United States Supreme Court Ruling, and IF they didn't get thier way, then THEY would Vote (TAKE THIER BALL and GO HOME) so no one could play !

2 3 0 members !!!!

BUT, further analysis reveals MORE.

Of the 230,...."ONE HALF" ,(115)....reside 'South of the Mason Dixon Line' .

I never realized that Human Beings living in these states did not have Deadly physical conditions that would have desperately needed health care, but alas, they couldn't have bought it with GOLD(even if they had GOLD) because of a PREXISTING CONDITION !

I never realized that the hospitals in those state were comfortable with desperate people 'jamming up' thier EMEG. Wards !

PS,
Bye the way, does anyone know what NEWT/'95 is saying about strategy like this ?

(Move Along..'southwind. NOTHING to see here) !

so much for the intelligent conversation
 
When even Karl Rove says this is a bad idea you know something is up. He knows it will be a repeat of the last time the GOP shut it down.
 
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Add Cantor, Romney and Coburn to the list of republicans speaking out against a shut down.

I'm really not sure why the republicans keep using the debt ceiling to hold the country hostage. I guess they think it worked well the first time... why not do it again.
 
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Why use the debt ceiling? Conservatives are fundamentally opposed to continuing to spend well beyond the taxpayers means, and Obamacare is a prime example of a debt spiral continuing unabated.

The sequester doom and gloom all fizzled. I suspect if the government shut down, some more people might notice, but life would go on for the self-sufficient...
 
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If the people get to see what insurance for all, without prejudice is like. They might well be amazed. This it the fear of the GOP. If it happens, GOP is toast. If everything goes to hell in a handbasket, they will be able to say they told us so. And be dully elected for it.

So, you have to ask yourself, if your an elected GOP....

Is insurance bad for everyone that has it now?

Uh oh..... I see some 'splaining to do...... LMFAO..... ;-)
 
Is insurance bad?...

Nope.

But having a job is better.

Right now, Gallup is finding that 40% of employers have frozen full-time hiring based on the costs of Obamacare. DL alone is forecasting an additional $38M in expenses due to costs RISING under Obamacare.

Even the CBO's estimates have doubled... what was supposed to be a $934B program is now $1.8T...

Heck, even Whorehouse Harry Reid had to claim that if Obamacare was imposed on Congressional staffers, they'd see people leaving for the private sector in droves...

If it's good enough for the people, it is good enough for civil servants, no?

But back to the premise "is insurance bad?" and "insurance for all"...

Obamacare will add insurance for perhaps 7-10M who don't have it now, and half of that are primarily young & healthy adults who are largely under-employed because of the threats of Obamacare....

So stop trying to pretend it is going to solve the problems of the uninsured. You can also stop pretending that Medicaid will magically pick up all of the rest.

The best you can say is it's better than nothing, but even there, it's a partial solution, and one that will hardly be affordable.
 
Why use the debt ceiling? Conservatives are fundamentally opposed to continuing to spend well beyond the taxpayers means, and Obamacare is a prime example of a debt spiral continuing unabated.

The sequester doom and gloom all fizzled. I suspect if the government shut down, some more people might notice, but life would go on for the self-sufficient...
I guess you have your own private aircraft to fly around in? Oh wait, no air traffic control to do that with. Maybe a free for all in the skies is ok with you.

That is just one example. Do you think your airline clients will like not being able to fly? How would that effect your bottom line?

This shutdown would be far worse than the last one. Last time there were appropriations already in effect for many agencies. This time there are none. This would be an entire closure. Do you think the economy would notice an immediate loss of over 1 million jobs?

You can see tha markets already starting to quiver at the idiocy.

The only thing more stupid than this government shutdown threat over Obamacare is threatening to not pay the bills.

Why don't you call all your creditors and tell them you are not going to pay them. Let me know how that works out for your credit rating.

 
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Why use the debt ceiling? Conservatives are fundamentally opposed to continuing to spend well beyond the taxpayers means, and Obamacare is a prime example of a debt spiral continuing unabated.

The sequester doom and gloom all fizzled. I suspect if the government shut down, some more people might notice, but life would go on for the self-sufficient...

Conservatives might be opposed to all the spending but there are none of them in Congress so that's really a moot issue.

Not like we should worry about our credit rating. Besides, just because we ordered and used stuff does not mean we should actually have to pay for the money we have already spent.
 
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I'd like to have my own insurance instead of being tied to a company (regardless how good) so if I want to look for another job I do not need to worry about my families well being.

Here's hoping we eventually get to a single payer system.
 
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Nice scare mongering on the airline impact, Glenn. Too bad it's all false.

Essential services like ATC, TSA, CBP all stay operational. They get paid. So do law enforcement eg FBI, National Park Police and rangers. Social Security and disabled veterans get paid.

Yes, it's a massive impact to send home 800,000 workers who push paper and manage bureaucracy, but the country didn't collapse when it happened under Clinton's watch.

I doubt it will this time, either.
 
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You are correct Eric.

ATC would stay on the job with deferred compensation. That does not mean the people who maintain the infrastructure the controllers use would stay. The clerks processing their time and pay would be furloughed. As would all the administrative support for them.

How many federal contractors would be effected? Maybe $25B in contracts stopped. All DOD contracts like ship and aircraft manufacturing stop. All of the support bsuinesses stop. The towns that survive solely because of those workers suffer. But hey, maybe they are "self sufficient" like you. Read below:

"Examples of Excepted Activities and Personnel

Previous determinations of excepted activities and personnel would not necessarily hold for any future shutdown. However, past experience may inform future OMB and agency decisions. An OMB memorandum of November 17, 1981, from Director David A. Stockman to the heads of executive agencies, identified “examples of excepted activities.”33 The memorandum, which still was in effect for the FY1996 shutdowns, explained
Beginning [on the first day of the appropriations hiatus], agencies may continue activities otherwise authorized by law, those that protect life and property and those necessary to begin phasedown of other activities. Primary examples of activities agencies may continue are those which may be found under applicable statutes to:
1. Provide for the national security, including the conduct of foreign relations essential to the national security or the safety of life and property.
2. Provide for benefit payments and the performance of contract obligations under no-year or multi-year or other funds remaining available for those purposes.
3. Conduct essential activities to the extent that they protect life and property, including: a. Medical care of inpatients and emergency outpatient care;
b. Activities essential to ensure continued public health and safety, including safe use of food and drugs and safe use of hazardous materials;
c. The continuance of air traffic control and other transportation safety functions and the protection of transport property;
d. Border and coastal protection and surveillance;
e. Protection of Federal lands, buildings, waterways, equipment and other property owned by the United States;
f. Care of prisoners and other persons in the custody of the United States; g. Law enforcement and criminal investigations;
h. Emergency and disaster assistance;
i. Activities essential to the preservation of the essential elements of the money and banking system of the United States, including borrowing and tax collection activities of the Treasury;
j. Activities that ensure production of power and maintenance of the power distribution system; and
k. Activities necessary to maintain protection of research property.
You should maintain the staff and support services necessary to continue these essential functions."

Effects on the Public

The effects of the two FY1996 shutdowns on government activities and the public received extensive attention. Although the effects on the public of any future shutdown would not necessarily reflect past experience, past events may be illustrative of effects that are possible.34 Several examples follow that were reported in congressional hearings, news media, and agency accounts.35
• Health. New patients were not accepted into clinical research at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) clinical center; the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention ceased disease surveillance; and hotline calls to NIH concerning diseases were not answered.36
• Law Enforcement and Public Safety. Delays occurred in the processing of alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives applications by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms; work on more than 3,500 bankruptcy cases reportedly was suspended; cancellation of the recruitment and testing of federal law- enforcement officials reportedly occurred, including the hiring of 400 border patrol agents; and delinquent child-support cases were delayed.37
• Parks, Museums, and Monuments. Closure of 368 National Park Service sites (loss of 7 million visitors) reportedly occurred, with loss of tourism revenues to local communities; and closure of national museums and monuments (reportedly with an estimated loss of 2 million visitors) occurred.38
• Visas and Passports. Approximately 20,000-30,000 applications by foreigners for visas reportedly went unprocessed each day; 200,000 U.S. applications for passports reportedly went unprocessed; and U.S. tourist industries and airlines reportedly sustained millions of dollars in losses.39
• American Veterans. Multiple services were curtailed, ranging from health and welfare to finance and travel.40
• Federal Contractors. Of $18 billion in Washington, DC, area contracts, $3.7 billion (over 20%) reportedly were affected adversely by the funding lapse; the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) was unable to issue a new standard for lights and lamps that was scheduled to be effective January 1, 1996, possibly resulting in delayed product delivery and lost sales; and employees of federal contractors reportedly were furloughed without pay.41
For the federal courts, a prolonged lapse in appropriated funding in the future, it has been suggested, might have a noticeable effect on court operations and on members of the public in contact with the courts. A spokeswoman for the judiciary reportedly has said it would again consider using non-appropriated funds to continue operating, as it did during the 1995-1996 government shutdowns. However, serious disruption, she added, could occur if a shutdown were prolonged and funds were depleted—with district and appellate courts unable to keep jurors, court reporters, clerks, probation officers, or security personnel on the job. Each court, she said, would make an independent decision on which employees were “emergency” and which were not.42"

http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34680_20110311.pdf

Here’s how I see the script playing out: The House GOP passes the hail mary CR bill, so Senators Ted Cruz and Mike Lee get share the load for awhile. Of course, the House bill will fail in the Senate, but the House GOP holds firm. With Obama preferring the shutdown to the alternatives, government funding stops for a time. This is enough to assuage the hardliners, so a debt limit increase can pass. The shutdown gets old fast – daily news stories on unavailable services will do that – and a clean CR gets passed sooner rather than later. Public opinion about the GOP is already at basement levels, so there is not enough impact at the ballot box in 2014 to overcome gerrymandering, but enough backlash for Republicans to finally realize these fiscal deadline fights won’t work anymore.

http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/blog/2013/09/18/were-still-doomed