Revamp Phl!

MarkMyWords

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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OK, I know that you have heard me rant on and on about making PHL a rolling hub versus a banking hub. In my mind this is just so crystal clear that it would be an all around plus for the company. Is there anyone out there that can give me valid reasons why it wouldn't work?

Here is my take on how things could work.

In the coming months we will begin to receive approx 5 RJ/SJ aircraft a month thru the combination of deliveries to various express carriers and MDA. If we were able to curtail the retirement of some of our prop planes for just 2-4 months we would be able to add 10-20 airplanes to the active fleet. If each plane flew on average 8-10 flights a day, that gives us the ability to add anywhere from 80 to 200 flights a day to the schedule.

Markets such as PHL-ALB, SYR, ROC, BUF, ORF, GSO, RIC, YYZ, PWM and IND could see a mixture of service between mainline and express. Markets that may have 4-5 mainline flights a day could boost service to 6-8 flights a day and time them every 2-3 hours.

Markets such as PHL-ORD, BOS, ATL, MCO, TPA, FLL, DFW, IAH, MSP and LGA (the more popular business and leisure destinations) could see a combination of service between mainline and express but have service every hour to every 90 minutes.

Couple the additional flight frequencies with the right fare structure and you could create a boom in demand. I don't buy into this theory that the system is plagued with over capacity issues. What the system is plagued with is value conscious consumers that refuse to pay extordinairily high fares for transportation that they may be able to get with a LCC. Why do you think all of these airports and cities are knocking down WN's door? How many cities or airports are vying for our service besides caribbean islands?

Now for the operation fo the rolling hub. Every negative aspect of the PHL operation would come to a dramatic hault if we would roll the PHL hub. ATC delays, ramp congestion, long taxi lines, low aircraft utilization rates, crew productivity breaks could all be improved with a rolling hub. In a typical PHL bank, let's say that there are 60 aircraft (mainline and express) in a bank. If you are the first airplane to arrive, you have to wait for all 60 airplanes to arrive, plus 30 minutes for minimum connecting time until you leave. If the arrival rate is 50 planes an hour, that first airplane is going to be sitting on the ground in PHL for 90+ minutes before it leaves. How is that efficient? Then when the departures start to leave, they depart the gates in clumps of 10+ airplanes every 5 minutes. Now we have created a long conga line for the end of the runway, and the next bank is starting to arrive. Add to that the staffing you have to have for 60 arrivals and departures. That is gate agents, ramp agents, mechanics, utility, crews, etc.

With the rolling banks you stop the peaks and valleys for arrivals and departures. You make the flow in and out of the hub continuous. First airplane arrives, has a 35-40 minute ground time and it is off the gate and back in the air. Since PHL has such a high O&D market, this rolling hub concept should work. With service to most destinations every 1-3 hours you would still be abel to connect a large volume of traffic in PHL and do it more effectively. Your employee utilization rates would skyrocket. If I were a gate agent or ramp agent in PHL and I had a flight on my gate every hour versus 1 every two hours, I am doing twice the work at the same level of pay. Imagine seeing a plane pull into the gate and watching ground crews swarm all over it and turn it back out in 35 minutes. Very similar to the way WN operates. A plane pulls in, everyone not doing something attacks the airplane. Whent he next one pulls in, they move to it, leaving a skeleton crew behind to finish the job. Crews would be more productive due to the reduced ground times. Even if the crew had to change airplanes, the wouldn't be connecting from one bank of flights to the next, so you would hopefully eliminate the 3 hour productivity breaks.

If we reduce the peaks and valleys of the hub and create a more even flow to the operation and place less stress on ATC. As flights depart the gate we no longer have the long lines for the departure end of the runway, so we could adjust block times and reduce the amount of fuel we needlessly burn sitting in line waiting our turn to depart. The same can be said for inbound holding for PHL if we reduce the arrival peaks.

In my eyes this concept is a win-win for everyone. We increase employee productivity, reduce ATC, reduce fuel costs, lower block times, increase aircraft utilization and hopefully decrease costs to that competitive cost structure we hear so much about! If you couple this initiative with a revamped fare structure that would spur demand I can't see why it wouldn't work.

Throw in the ability to keep a spare mainline jet and a spare express jet with OPR crews and we have a real winner. This is similar to what they had on Shuttle prior to 9/11. You have a ready crew and airplane sitting there and if a flight is running late upline for any reason, you could utilize the crew and airplane to pick off the line of flying. This will help to improve schedule reliability while giving you options to deal with flight irregularities.

Can anyone give me valid reasons why a rolling hub won't work in PHL? Growing, not shrinking the airline is what is going to help us get our cost structure down. Without a growth plan we will continue to widdle away to nothing.
 
It's a little like Baghdad. The people in charge keep saying it's OK, but every day something awful happens. Building on that is nuts. Somewhere there must be a manager they can hire who has the vision and skill set to tame that place.
 
MMW,

Sounds like a "plan" and it could work. Hell, doing something innovative is better than the present "status quo".

But, what about Pittsburgh? Send some of the traffic to our airspace. PHL idea is great, until weather snow storms hit. Utilize PIT.

Its only a matter of time before LUV comes to Pittsburgh and captures traffic with their reasonable, consistant, simple fare structure. If LUV seizes PIT and PHL, there goes our business. Dave speaks in his "address" to th eAero Club that the customer has an expectation depending on the day. Wrong! the customers repeatedly have said they want a fair, sonsistant, product, and hassle-free process. Work within that "frame work" and build on that.

And Mark, tell them to focus on the employee morale without trying to force folks to comply or else. Nothing will work, if we don't start working as a team and that will not happen if you just "will" it to. Management has to get on board with labor and join us in fixing this airline so we can really compete. The greater question is how do we change the minds of these execs to think differently when it comes to "stock holder value" vs. "human value". Nothing will work if you do not have a strong foundation to keep both sides of the "triangle" together.

How do you create a balance?
 
NO doubt phl could be a great place to work if only someone understood it.

You will never get anywhere with bean counters and managers in pinstripes.
It s a different place.
You need folks who manage by rolling up their sleeves and break a sweat
from time to time. You need to know the workers and to be able to
communicate like you are one of them.

PHl is unique and will have to be managed in a unique fassion. We do not
have the visionaries in ccy to accomplish this task. (my opinion)

Up with cheese steaks at pats for all...
 
MarkMyWords said:
Fly? Do-it-for-Dave? Hawk? Anyone?

WHY WON'T THIS WORK?
They must be busy spreading FUD at the super-secret pow-wow. A certain Capt. will soon be telling us how we can all be more like Home Depot, probably by 5 EST.

There is nothing secret here, tell us what is happening. The other way did not work, so why not?

Indeed.
 
PitBull,

I think the same holds true for Pittsburgh. There is no way would could cram 200 additional flights into PHL, so that would also mean some growth for PIT, CLT, LGA, BOS and DCA.....as well as the cities they serve. Dumping additional aircraft into the system and increasing aircraft utilization would mean even more flights throughout the system. Perhaps this would give us the airplanes that we need to do BOS and LGA to MCO, FLL, TPA, RSW and PBI service. But it has to be coupled with the right fare structure as well.

I am not saying that the above plan would not come with a price. I am sure there would be some additional stations that would end up becoming Mainline Express, but that is going to happen anyway. Dave has his mind made up. If we utilize the mainline fleet to do the long haul runs to the west, FL, TX, LA, Caribbean and to strong business markets we increase the stage lengths of these aircraft and REDUCE COSTS while increasing revenues. Should a 733 or a 319 being doing PHL-ALB runs all day? What if we took those 4 733 flights and changed them to 7-8 EMB170 flights? We will off the same number of seats in the market, but at a much more convenient timing (similar to WN), freeing up the 733 to do longer route flying and using the appropriate a/c on the short run. If there are peak times during the day that can support the 733, then by all means use it!

As for employee morale.....I would imagine that there would be an uplift in morale solely based on the fact that we are trying to do something different. We are taking a stand on the competition, defending out turf, improving the operation and hopefully MAKING MONEY and GROWING again. I agree that Dave has a long way to go with mending fences with labor and I think a growth plan versus constant reductions would be a great start.
 
MarkMyWords said:
PitBull,

I think the same holds true for Pittsburgh. There is no way would could cram 200 additional flights into PHL, so that would also mean some growth for PIT, CLT, LGA, BOS and DCA.....as well as the cities they serve. Dumping additional aircraft into the system and increasing aircraft utilization would mean even more flights throughout the system. Perhaps this would give us the airplanes that we need to do BOS and LGA to MCO, FLL, TPA, RSW and PBI service. But it has to be coupled with the right fare structure as well.

I am not saying that the above plan would not come with a price. I am sure there would be some additional stations that would end up becoming Mainline Express, but that is going to happen anyway. Dave has his mind made up. If we utilize the mainline fleet to do the long haul runs to the west, FL, TX, LA, Caribbean and to strong business markets we increase the stage lengths of these aircraft and REDUCE COSTS while increasing revenues. Should a 733 or a 319 being doing PHL-ALB runs all day? What if we took those 4 733 flights and changed them to 7-8 EMB170 flights? We will off the same number of seats in the market, but at a much more convenient timing (similar to WN), freeing up the 733 to do longer route flying and using the appropriate a/c on the short run. If there are peak times during the day that can support the 733, then by all means use it!

As for employee morale.....I would imagine that there would be an uplift in morale solely based on the fact that we are trying to do something different. We are taking a stand on the competition, defending out turf, improving the operation and hopefully MAKING MONEY and GROWING again. I agree that Dave has a long way to go with mending fences with labor and I think a growth plan versus constant reductions would be a great start.
I would suggest something similar but a little more targeted.

Whatever cities Southwest flies to from PHL, put 737's and Airbus equipment on it, match Southwest's fare, and offer double miles (or triple miles if you get really desperate).

Should Southwest leave PHL as a result, that pretty much guarantees that JetBlue won't even bother with PHL anytime soon, especially seeing as how they just got booted out of ATL.

The only problem with this is that if Southwest holds out longer than US can, US goes out of business and then Southwest takes over.

It's either that or run, in which case you go out of business anyway, albeit more slowly. I say take the risk, because it's your only hope.

Oh, one more thing -- if you offered meals and more legroom and stuff like that and charged a slightly higher fare, both US and WN could co-exist at PHL, but assuming that won't happen, I guess it's either dump capacity or run. :(
 
While adding capacity in PHL sounds like a great plan, and I believe Mark is onto something with his well thought out plan, you can put all your planes into PHL or any other city and they'll run just as empty with the fare structure as it sits now. The business plan the Dave's have will not work as is evident by the numbers U is reporting. What it is going to take is a multi directional plan that fixes lots of things such as fares, a/c utilization, employee morale, union relations, pax perception of the airline, marketing and a/c to employee ratios.

Fares: Drop the stinking high end fares and raise the low end fares. It's simple enough yet no one in CCY get's it. Is it better to fly zero pax from PHL or CLT to LAX for $2500.00 or 5 pax at $500.00 a piece? Am I missing something here?

A/c Utilization: U flys it's planes on average 10 hours a day. I'm not sure of the language in the ALPA contract regarding the 279 a/c minimum with spares but it would seem to me that if you could up the utilization of the a/c to maybe 12 hours a day you could generate more revenue and carry more pax. I believe there may be union contract limits on this issue but I'm sure something could be worked out if someone stepped up with a plan.

Employee Morale: Get the white shirts out of CCY and put them in the shoes of Judy and Joe Employee and let them see what the front line employees have to deal with on a daily basis. Partner them up with a CSA in PHL or a f/a based in CLT or anywhere and anyone for that matter and let them walk a day in their shoes. Get out and talk with the employees and stop the heavy handed tactics that come out of CCY. Show the people you care and lead by example and maybe, just maybe they'll follow you.

Union Relations: Stop the assault on the contracts. You negotiated them, the members are living with them and CCY should too. Cut and dry. Move the Airbus work in-house and empower mx to bring in more Airbus work. Set up teams of mechanics and management and target airlines that need heavy checks done on their planes. Send those teams to those airlines and tell them why they'd be better off having a dedicated work force of U mechanics overhauling their planes Tell them U wants their work and needs their work. Give them a good price and put a face on the people asking for the work. The results may surprise you.

Pax Perception: The pax have a terrible view of U and it's a result of past management decisions as well as the low morale. If a pax pays $250.00 for a r/t on U and the same on LUV to the same place I guarantee you the U pax with complain up and down about how terrible they were treated despite the actualities of the situation. People tend to come to U with a bad attitude and expect to be treated badly and if one little thing goes wrong they label the whole place as a bad experience. Marketing has to come out with a plan to change pax perception and if you fix the employee problem then the rest would fall into place.

A/C to employee ratio: Currently LCC have approx. 70 FTE employees per mainline a/c. U's rate is over 100 I believe. That has to change or it's curtains for the whole entity. Maybe one way to do this would be to add a/c and fly to more places? I know that would take more flight crews but for the modest gain in that area could it be offset by a/c utilization and the rolling hub concept?

Just my two cents. Let the assault begin :p
 
Mark, Why won't this work?
Because the people in charge of this Company DO NOT do things that make sense.

You have been saying this for a long long time and it has always been looked at the other way. I must agree that this would be a step in the right direction but, going to a rolling hub concept would lead to job cuts and I don't think the unions would look at it the same way. Aslo we would not need all the facilities cutting rent expenses which would save money. The problem there is the company holds on to gates we don't use to keep competition out. I think the company needs to look at each airport we serve because there is wasted gates everywhere. In our station we have four gates but only use two. Sell them or start handling other companys which would bring some employees back.

But as I have said before, Great Idea........Maybe this time someone from CCY will listen!!!
 
Mark -
As you've just shown, it's not brain surgery. In relatively short order, you've mapped out a plan that is a possible fix for U's biggest headache and its biggest money maker. This represents the kind of thinking that U needs if it's going to pull out of the mess that it's in. The biggest threat to U is not SWA - it's U itself. U has the history, the route system and the home-field advantage in PHL. It has all the tools necessary to build a formidable defense there and go on the offensive from there. I don't know if it has the resources to fight these battles on multiple fronts at the same time, but it certainly can fight and win in PHL with the right plan. This thread shows that it's possible. Now we just have to see what CCY comes up with, more re-trenching and cuts - or a plan that offers realizable (is that a word?) success in the future.
- Kevin
 
We flight attendants can offer the elimination of alot of waste as well.......

While we're at it, although this must go thru the union leaders, it's time to end the archaic, hand- tying me too clause that has caused give backs from the F/A's for years. I could give two hoots if I ever stay with one set of pilots. This system IS inefficiant. Who cares if one is on a 737 one day and an airbus the next. A passenger is a passenger so it doesn't matter. This clause was intended to make sure the f/a's were treated with equal footing. Now the only footing any of us gets is the ones up our butts. In every contract, the f/a's have gotten screwed by the me too clause. WHAT HAS ME TOO DONE FOR YOU LATELY!!

I say this because there would be much more flexability in scheduling. We are an airline with multible aircraft. This limits the utilization of crews. For example, At LGA, we have quite a few number of 737's that still come thru, however because we stay with the pilots and do not have a 737 pilot's base, the flying goes elsewhere. Also, LGA isn't a base where the airbus pilots are overwater qualified. So, the flight attendants will not see the Saturday LGA-SJU service. There would be a lot less siting around if the f/a's were scheduled with a mixed fleet. And we're just a little base.

Also, there needs to be variety of one days west that...again..the me too clause limits to the f/a's . One days mean better utilization and no overnights. Most f/a's would at least like the option of an 8- 10 hour flight day or longer. I don't believe there are FAR's for the f/a's preventing say a PHL-LAX roundtrip. Please correct me with the proof if I am wrong.

While we are at it....What doo-doo head fenced off international? Going to other bases to get f/as when you have 2000 ON the property is foolish. Causing delays and cancelling flights because you ran out of f/a's in a base like PHL when you have a base with 2000 f/as seperated is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. We are the only airline with a seperate division. It's time to bring down the fence.

I'll promise you this won't happen. It would save the company millions and give the f/a's more flexibility but the old regime will see it as giving back and we know how the leadership feels about that.

At this time in my airline career, I want to go to work and work hard and have more time off. Has it ever occurred to anyone that the current 8 hour limit per day times 4 equals 32 hours? Why are our trips worth only 21? Let's see...32x3=96 hours in 12 days. 21x3=63 in 12 days. Gonna have to work six more days because of the lack of flexability due in many respects to the infamous ME SCREW CLAUSE. I'm working more days and making less money than if the trips were worth more. What gives?

I'm not saying all trips should be high time, but many of us want to be home more. I've done my long, glamerous layovers. Now I want to utlize my time at work and enjoy my precious time at home.


My opinion won't be popular but I stick by it.
 
First,
I agree with you one hundred percent! The best way we can help our company out is to be more productive. I have been trying to get the ITD fence down for years! What a waste of money. It is only for the very, very senior that it is up. They can make more money on 6 trips than on the 105, so their retirement will be more.

But why not save the company money and while we're at it, why have a minimum or maximum. If we can fly legally,let us do it. If we want to take a month off, as long as we have a minimum like some of the other airlines do. In order to get medical and passes, you have to fly a minimum of say 180 hours in 3 months. It wouldn't be hard to keep track, the computer could.

There are so many different options other than our archaic bid sheet. And staying with the pilots certainly isn't necessary. Back in the old days, we at PSA were seperated and it worked fine.
 
First and PSA- I think youre both right and most FAs would too if explained correctly.
The ITD fence needs to go! More information about the cost savings and flexibility from removing it needs to be passed to the company and the FA group. Like you said, its a select few who want to keep it up for selfish reasons.

Mark-
I think your ideas for are excellent and very well thought out.

If only managment would present a positive, believable business plan that includes growth as a stand alone carrier, this group could do wonders. This is an experienced and sophisticated work force that knows its airline, its facilities, and its customers (and its problems) better than anyone. Maybe some positivity from "above" would result in positive energy and ideas like these from employees.

What ever happened to Piney Bobs project? Perhaps we should start a suggestion book with imput from employees and customers and send it to CCY?