Revenue Advantage

[jcw]

As you all know we hear day in and day out the revenue advantage DL has over AA, especially in LA. 
 
Look at the attached link - you will see DL moves more passengers in LA (excluding US) however AA has more revenue - kind of funny how the facts are opposite of the story we have been presented by one cheerleader
 
http://www.lawa.org/uploadedfiles/LAX/statistics/aircarrier-2014.pdf
 
For 2014 AA wins
 
 

 

[silverbird007]

I hope there's an AED handy! 2015 will probably be even better with the 787s!

 

[eolesen]

Queue all the asterisks and conditionals you can scrounge up before WT grabs them all...

This report isn't showing revenue. It's showing revenue OPERATIONS.

Since AA has smaller gauge RJs operating in larger numbers, they're clearly going to win on the operations count.

 
Here's a consolidated passenger chart:
 

Airline		Measurement	Mkt%	Domestic	International	
United		12,915,927	18.28	11,751,337	1,164,590
American	12,895,120	18.24	12,032,354	862,766
Delta		11,279,438	15.96	10,109,613	1,169,825
Southwest	8,093,494	11.45	8,093,494	0
Alaska		3,359,059	4.75	2,268,393	1,090,666
Virgin		3,228,376	4.57	3,170,904	57,472
Qantas		1,221,743	1.73	180,233 	1,041,510
AC		1,080,893	1.53	0       	1,080,893
JetBlue		946,567 	1.34	946,567 	0

And here's revenue operations:

Airline		Measurement	Mkt%	Domestic	International	
United		132,777		22.01	124,819		7,958
American	122,695		20.34	117,377		5,318
Delta		95,420		15.82	88,084		7,336
Southwest	76,119		12.62	76,119		0
Virgin		27,877		4.62	27,425		452
Alaska		26,508		4.39	18,277		8,231
AC		9,280		1.54	0		9,280
FDX		8,714		1.44	8,714		0

 

[CMH_GSE]

Queue all the asterisks and conditionals you can scrounge up before WT grabs them all...This report isn't showing revenue. It's showing revenue OPERATIONS.Since AA has smaller gauge RJs operating in larger numbers, they're clearly going to win on the operations count. Here's a consolidated passenger chart:

Airline		Measurement	Mkt%	Domestic	International	
United		12,915,927	18.28	11,751,337	1,164,590
American	12,895,120	18.24	12,032,354	862,766
Delta		11,279,438	15.96	10,109,613	1,169,825
Southwest	8,093,494	11.45	8,093,494	0
Alaska		3,359,059	4.75	2,268,393	1,090,666
Virgin		3,228,376	4.57	3,170,904	57,472
Qantas		1,221,743	1.73	180,233 	1,041,510
AC		1,080,893	1.53	0       	1,080,893
JetBlue		946,567 	1.34	946,567 	0

Hmmm, Delter is 3rd.

What's WTs rule about being 3rd again...

 

[jcw]

in case anyone was looking at other statistics - AAG had more mainline passengers at LGA than DL - interesting

 

[WorldTraveler]

the data validates exactly what I have said. It is mind-numbingly unbelievable that you didn't hear it before.


E worked quickly to rewrite the data but it shows exactly what I have said which is that AA would have been relegated to #3 if it weren't for the merger.

AA is fighting like all get out not to be relegated to number 3 in LAX like what happened in NYC among the big 3.

Did you happen to notice - or are you pretending to note see - that DL is the largest international carrier at LAX?

and given that DL will have 2 new longhaul int'l flights added to those totals for 2015, the chances are slim to none that order will be changed


it is also noteworthy how much cargo AA gave up with dropping 767 service to JFK - and with it, DL is now the largest cargo carrier among passenger airlines.

all AA leads in moving aircraft and domestic passengers

so, yes, thank you for posting the data... if validates exactly what I have said.

 

[jcw]

the data validates exactly what I have said. It is mind-numbingly unbelievable that you didn't hear it before.



Did you happen to notice - or are you pretending to note see - that DL is the largest international carrier at LAX?

 

 
I would say I was NOT (vs note) pretending - knowing how you like to scold people on their use of english language - you might want to check your skills there
 
I did not say anything about international - however I guess DL grew in LA from the NWA merger - interesting how it's not OK for AA to grow in LAX through a merger like DL
 
Funny double standard is in full play

 

[WorldTraveler]

yeah you are right about my spelling.....

no, DL's status as the #1 int'l airline at LAX is due far more to its growth from LAX to Latin America and not the single NRT flight which NW brought to the merger. HND was started after the merger as well.

there is no double standard.

AA simply moves more airplanes and domestic passengers. When it comes to int'l service, the show belongs to DL at LAX... and since DL operated its LHR flight for just over 2 months of 2014 and the PVG flight will start about halfway thru 2015, the numbers will become even more lopsided in DL's favor.

again, thank you for posting the data which validates what I have repeatedly said .... AA/US created a big domestic passenger airline but is still #3 in int'l and that is true at LAX as well.

considering that DL is 37% larger than AA in int'l boardings from LAX already and DL boards over 3000 int'l passengers per day, it will take a whole lot of new int'l flights for AA to close the gap.

and of course AA has to figure out how to make them profitable and to get comparable revenue to DL and UA.

 

[jcw]

so are you now saying DL to Asia is not important in LAX and LATAM is more important - so I guess DL couldn't compete with AA on the east coast to LATAM so they focused on LA  Good for DL

 

[WorldTraveler]

how do you come up with these "translations?"

DL's ATL to Latin America operation carries the second highest amount of revenue with 60% of what AA carries from MIA and ahead of UA from IAH despite the fact that both MIA and IAH have far larger Latin populations than ATL.

so your notion that DL couldn't compete on the east coast is simply incorrect.

and I have no idea where you got the comparison between Asia and Latin America but in both cases, DL boards more passengers from LAX to Latin America and Asia than AA or UA.

and by this summer, DL will have 60% more seats from LAX to Asia than AA or UA and more than twice as many seats from LAX to Latin America.

so as much as you want to deny it, DL is LAX' int'l airline with more service than AA or UA and DL's LAX int'l network is growing faster than either AA or UA's.

 

[jcw]

wait are we now going to say DL is going to build a MIA hub

 

[WorldTraveler]

again, how you came up with that, I don't know. It isn't being discussed even remotely here.

I do think in time DL will add MIA to Latin America service but that idea has probably been put on the back burner until there is more recovery in the Latin market - or else it will be more focused on the northern half of Latin America - without longhaul - which is what WN and B6 are doing anyway.

but what I said in this thread is that DL is the largest int'l carrier from LAX and the largest carrier to both Latin America and Asia by this summer in terms of seats.

AA won the crown for largest domestic carrier and largest US carrier to Europe - which wasn't hard to do since DL and UA each operate precisely one flight/day to Europe from LAX and AA just happened to double that.

interestingly, by alliance and partnerships, Skyteam (AF/KL/AZ in JVs plus SU) plus DL led alliances (since Virgin Atlantic is not in Skyteam) is the largest among the 3 US carrier led alliances to Europe.

so even to Europe, DL has more seats under its own flag or in Joint Ventures.

on yet another measurement, DL is LAX' int'l airline.

and DL is achieving those titles with the smallest number of gates compared to AA and UA

clearly, DL is focusing its resources on where it can have the greatest impact and push the most amount of seats and revenue thru each flight as evidenced by even on domestic, DL has more seats to departure than AA or UA - on average nearly 20 more seats per flight.

and we got to discuss this all because a couple people wanted to tout AA's accomplishments at LAX without bothering to read the data they were actually using as their "proof text"

 

[LDVAviation]

interestingly, by alliance and partnerships, Skyteam (AF/KL/AZ in JVs plus SU) plus DL led alliances (since Virgin Atlantic is not in Skyteam) is the largest among the 3 US carrier led alliances to Europe.

so even to Europe, DL has more seats under its own flag or in Joint Ventures.

on yet another measurement, DL is LAX' int'l airline.

 
Here are some observations which I know are going to upset your world view.
 
When LAWA ran a study to justify its investment in the T4 connector, particularly the link between the T4 BHS and the TBIT BHS, it found that most of the transit passengers arriving at TBIT are connecting to and from an AA flight in T4.  So, even if SkyTeam is larger in terms of total seats, it is nevertheless true that AA's LAX operation benefits more from its alliance partners than Delta's.
 
To determine the space allocations for lounges in the new TBIT, LAWA relied in part on the number of premium seats each alliance offers in the market.  The oneworld lounge is about 3 times the size of the SkyTeam lounge.  As it turns out, LAWA may have underestimated the space allocation for oneworld, which is why it is quite likely that AA will end up building its own lounge in the new TBIT.  (Don't worry I am sure Delta can see when that happens.)
 
As to LAX's international airline, it is quite silly to call DL that when it still only competes on the periphery at LAX.  Up until recently, it didn't fly to LHR.  It does not partner with the top international airlines at LAX, ...QF, CX, and BA.  As an LA resident, I can tell you that Delta's profile in the market is not nearly as triumphant as you make it out to be.  To many of us here, it is still the airline to/from Atlanta and that is not a good thing.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you truly don't get it.

you continue to hope that space will determine market success.

It simply did not work in NYC and given the significant difference in capacity between AA and DL from LAX at this point, and DL gets far better revenue on the flights it already operates, it is simply a pipe dream for you to think that DL will quit growing and quit generating the revenue premiums that will allow it to justify adding more flights.

again, it is mind-numbing how hell bent you are to hold onto an idea which is so far out in left field and so against every piece of data.

but if it keeps you happy thinking that AA can dethrone DL from its position of international leadership in LAX, go for it.

every evidence says that DL, not AA, is LAX' largest int'l carrier and AA is simply larger overall because of all fo the domestic mass that it created with the merger while being, once again, behind DL and UA in the key int'l regions - the exact same scenario that exists from all of the US to Asia and Europe. the difference is that DL's multiple narrowbody flights to Latin America from LAX add up to a larger total than AA's LAX to GRU flight - which itself is heavily discounted compared to other AA gateways.

AA has a very long way to even get to revenue parity with DL and UA and a large part of that reason is because AA is a much more domestic focused and less int'l airline - exactly what you get when you combine US which was the most domestic of even the big 6 legacy airlines when there were 6. compound that with the fact that half of US' int'l network was to/from Star markets in Europe that don't work near as well in oneworld, and it is no surprise that AA has barely moved the dial on its aspirations of being a global carrier on par with DL and UA.

and btw the thread title here is not even correct. UA carries more revenue thru LAX than AA does and UA is the largest carrier in the LAX local market.

 

[LDVAviation]

but if it keeps you happy thinking that AA can dethrone DL from its position of international leadership in LAX, go for it.

every evidence says that DL, not AA, is LAX' largest int'l carrier and AA is simply larger because of all fo the domestic mass that it created with the merger while being, once again, behind DL and UA in the key int'l regions

 
It is just a matter of time before AA uses its muscle at LAX to move ahead of DL in international ASM's.  DL has built that lead in part with flights to Latin America, a region where AA is stronger.  AA also has the corporate contracts in the LA area to make both HKG and ICN work.  It is just a matter of time.
 
Now, it is time to use the ignore function on you.  Let's see how long you last without the attention you so desperately need.