" Right Gauging the Fleet "

[tom barry]

Before I start to "opine" here, let me "get this OUT" so as Not to be seen siding/sleeping with the Enemy.

As a strong Union Guy, AA retiree since 2004, I like a Lot of others will (highly) likely Lose Retiree Medical, keep my pension(probably via PBGC), and retain current flying privileges, when all is said and done.

Having said that, I AGREE with the position of Mr. Vahidi as it pertains to being able to allow A/E to fly (up to) 88 seat a/c . (think E-jets/C-jets).

APA/APFA.
With approx. 460 new narrow body's and 787's "enroute" plus 777's already here,(of which None of these A/C are Below 88 seats) means that APA/APFA are still going to be doing a shite Load of flying, PERIOD !

APA is going to spend 1/2 Million $$ a month during BK, to among other things lobby thier "position" !

IF thier "position" is to keep a current stranglehold on the RJ issue, at the possible expense of thousands of Ramp/Amt's/Agents etc. jobs, then I say....Thier position BE DAM*ED !!!!!!!!!!!

(another) IF. IF APA is willing to fly said 88 seaters under A/E conditions ($$$), then I say give them "first crack" at it Before A/E pilots !

Now, without further Adieu,

FIRE AWAY ! :unsure:

 

[tom barry]

E-190.
The E-190 2 class standard has 94 seats ( 8/88), however it could be configured to 12/76, AND increase the y class leg room somewhat.

UAL is "eating our lunch" out of ORD by using these E-Jets. I've flown them before, and on a 2 hr flt from (say) BOS/NYC/DCA to ORD they are much better than the Horrid 2-"3" s-80 config.

With a full load, this bird has a range of a bit over 1,800 nm/2,000+ miles.

The bombardier C-jet hasn't even made a flight yet, AND it's designed for a minumum of 110 seats.

Depending how bad AA/BK screws Embraer, they "could" trade those crappy RJ's and get a famous "AA Deal" on the E-190 !

 

[eolesen]

Embraer is only out about $750k, Bears. The ERJs were owned, so the mortgage holders are out money, not Embraer.

Some of the CR70s may have been backed by Bombardier.

As for AA pilots flying the planes.... You only address one of the five workgroups involved here. Are the TWU, APFA and agents going to also accept Eagle wages & work rules?....

 

[topDawg]

Before I start to "opine" here, let me "get this OUT" so as Not to be seen siding/sleeping with the Enemy.

As a strong Union Guy, AA retiree since 2004, I like a Lot of others will (highly) likely Lose Retiree Medical, keep my pension(probably via PBGC), and retain current flying privileges, when all is said and done.

Having said that, I AGREE with the position of Mr. Vahidi as it pertains to being able to allow A/E to fly (up to) 88 seat a/c . (think E-jets/C-jets).

APA/APFA.
With approx. 460 new narrow body's and 787's "enroute" plus 777's already here,(of which None of these A/C are Below 88 seats) means that APA/APFA are still going to be doing a shite Load of flying, PERIOD !

APA is going to spend 1/2 Million $$ a month during BK, to among other things lobby thier "position" !

IF thier "position" is to keep a current stranglehold on the RJ issue, at the possible expense of thousands of Ramp/Amt's/Agents etc. jobs, then I say....Thier position BE DAM*ED !!!!!!!!!!!

(another) IF. IF APA is willing to fly said 88 seaters under A/E conditions ($$$), then I say give them "first crack" at it Before A/E pilots !

Now, without further Adieu,

FIRE AWAY ! :unsure:

you would be crazy to think that 255 airplanes that large would be good for any mainline employees. You can expect them to order them and cancel half of the AB/Boeing order. (Delta canceled 40 737s, parked ~60 mores 737s, and ~60 727s with no mainline replacement, and E75s are flying ex-mainline routes like DCA-LGA.)

But what do i know, I only got to see Delta do it, and United do it(how many 737s went without replacement). Maybe AA management really cares about mainline employees

 

[FWAAA]

you would be crazy to think that 255 airplanes that large would be good for any mainline employees. You can expect them to order them and cancel half of the AB/Boeing order. (Delta canceled 40 737s, parked ~60 mores 737s, and ~60 727s with no mainline replacement, and E75s are flying ex-mainline routes like DCA-LGA.)

But what do i know, I only got to see Delta do it, and United do it(how many 737s went without replacement). Maybe AA management really cares about mainline employees

DL has accelerated its plans to retire its 50-seaters. AA has about 200 37/44/50 seat ERJs. While you may be right, perhaps the plan is to get 255 70-88 seaters to replace most of AA's small ERJs?

 

[will fix for food]

The DFW brass has been in Brazil for a while now negotiating with Embraer to trade in the 135's, 140's and 145's for E-Jets. The word was initially AMR wanted to keep the 145's but Embraer wanted them all as a package deal. I am assuming it is because they would be easier to resell in Asia.

I am guessing that Egle will become the mid-tier carrier while all or most of the 50 seat and under flying will be farmed out.

Of course nothing can be officially announced until the new SCOPE clause is finalized.

 

[wings396]

Before I start to "opine" here, let me "get this OUT" so as Not to be seen siding/sleeping with the Enemy.

As a strong Union Guy, AA retiree since 2004, I like a Lot of others will (highly) likely Lose Retiree Medical, keep my pension(probably via PBGC), and retain current flying privileges, when all is said and done.

Having said that, I AGREE with the position of Mr. Vahidi as it pertains to being able to allow A/E to fly (up to) 88 seat a/c . (think E-jets/C-jets).

APA/APFA.
With approx. 460 new narrow body's and 787's "enroute" plus 777's already here,(of which None of these A/C are Below 88 seats) means that APA/APFA are still going to be doing a shite Load of flying, PERIOD !

APA is going to spend 1/2 Million $$ a month during BK, to among other things lobby thier "position" !

IF thier "position" is to keep a current stranglehold on the RJ issue, at the possible expense of thousands of Ramp/Amt's/Agents etc. jobs, then I say....Thier position BE DAM*ED !!!!!!!!!!!

(another) IF. IF APA is willing to fly said 88 seaters under A/E conditions ($$$), then I say give them "first crack" at it Before A/E pilots !

Now, without further Adieu,

FIRE AWAY ! :unsure:

Having been thru the BK process already, I can tell you that APA along with everyone else can spend and lobby till they Puke. In the end it means Zilch to th BK judge, and he will go along with just about ANYTHING the company requests in order to stay afloat. Contracts will be gutted as the company sees fit, and the unions will have Zero power during the BK process. They may have Eagle flying MD-80's by the time this is over. Not likely, but I'm sure you get my drift. Everyone, Every Union is putty in the Judge's hands. He is going to go along with whatever it takes to keep the company viable for the creditors PERIOD.

 

[Vortilon]

Having been thru the BK process already, I can tell you that APA along with everyone else can spend and lobby till they Puke. In the end it means Zilch to th BK judge, and he will go along with just about ANYTHING the company requests in order to stay afloat. Contracts will be gutted as the company sees fit, and the unions will have Zero power during the BK process. They may have Eagle flying MD-80's by the time this is over. Not likely, but I'm sure you get my drift. Everyone, Every Union is putty in the Judge's hands. He is going to go along with whatever it takes to keep the company viable for the creditors PERIOD.

Well now, now I get it. The judge has no criteria to follow, just do as the company says. OK then....

 

[Mach85ER]

As for AA pilots flying the planes.... You only address one of the five workgroups involved here. Are the TWU, APFA and agents going to also accept Eagle wages & work rules?....

Thanks E.

Amazing how the talking head analysts and the media seem to overlook the fact that APA has low balled a pilot rate in the past to fly these jets and the APFA and the TWU said "no way, full pay".

That is where the problem is regarding the labor CASM to fly these jets. They are having a big problem even in this economy finding experienced pilots to fly the small jets with the current rates in the regional industry and it's getting worse. The smaller families of jets also come in various sizes including greater than 100 seats. It would be ridiculous for AA to try to fly them with two different pilot groups.

 

[john john]

Are the TWU, APFA and agents going to also accept Eagle wages & work rules?....

The agents have no choice now…. unless?????

 

[strikeforce]

Having been thru the BK process already, I can tell you that APA along with everyone else can spend and lobby till they Puke. In the end it means Zilch to th BK judge, and he will go along with just about ANYTHING the company requests in order to stay afloat. Contracts will be gutted as the company sees fit, and the unions will have Zero power during the BK process. They may have Eagle flying MD-80's by the time this is over. Not likely, but I'm sure you get my drift. Everyone, Every Union is putty in the Judge's hands. He is going to go along with whatever it takes to keep the company viable for the creditors PERIOD.

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!

And, when it's all said and done....the creditors will get ZILCH, too!

the BK judge will approve any plan AA put's in front of him because WHO knows better than the morons at centrepork, right??

only the 88,000 REAL employee's will know if the plan will work or NOT!

What won't work is AA's plan to CONTINUE RAPING it's employees. WE are real people, with real families to support, and if this RAPING continues, real talented employees will run out the door! WE'RE NOT THAT STUPID!!!

 

[wings396]

Well now, now I get it. The judge has no criteria to follow, just do as the company says. OK then....

Not saying that, but what's good for the company and the creditors, isn't what's good for the employees. During bk at US, the company was granted all they wished for. In the first bk the company agreed not to come back for anything else, but they did and got it all the second round. Let's face it, cutting costs big time is what the company wants and needs, and the judge will go in their favor if it means seeing another day

 

[FWAAA]

With approx. 460 new narrow body's and 787's "enroute" plus 777's already here,(of which None of these A/C are Below 88 seats) means that APA/APFA are still going to be doing a shite Load of flying, PERIOD !

As you well know, APA has a long history of stonewalling in its own attempt to "save its profession." Of course, that has contributed to AA's problems, dating back to 1996 when the first RJ TA was rejected. At that time, AA was already way behind DL with 50 seaters, which DL began flying at Comair and ASA in 1990 or so. Eagle didn't get its first ERJ until 1999 because of a stubborn (and mistaken) belief that preventing AA from paying Eagle to fly 50 seaters would somehow preserve high pay for all. Didn't work out that way, and thus, DL had a nine year head-start on AA.

For the past decade, that's continued. By time AA built up a large fleet of 50 seaters, things were already changing and 70 seaters were the rage. AA finally has 47 of them. DL has 254 70 to 90 seaters flying for it. That has given DL a huge advantage.

"But if APA gives AA permission to fly all those 70-88 seaters at Eagle or other regionals, then AA won't fly any narrowbody mainline planes." Uh-hu. We've heard that song and dance before. At Delta, the mainline fleet included 547 narrowbodies as of 12/31/11. Even subtracting out all the 757s leaves 393 mainline narrowbodies. This year, DL will remove the DC-9s but will also accelerate retirement of the 40-50 seat CRJs.

AA's huge orders of 737s and Airbus narrowbodies may or may not come to fruition. One thing is clear, however: Without the ability to outsource 150-250 total 70-88 seaters, just like DL enjoys (and like UA), AA won't need all those new 737s and A320-series orders.

The APA's stonewalling on RJs isn't the primary cause of AA's current troubles, but it's a clear contributing factor. In AA's proposal to the APA prior to Ch11, AA proposed placing all new 70 seaters and larger on the mainline cert with APA crews. With the 1113 ask, that has changed to everything above 88 seats. I agree with Mach85ER, though - even if APA gets behind this proposal, will the APFA and TWU go along with it as well?

 

[tech2101]

real talented employees will run out the door!

The real talented people should already have their resume in the hands of employers with better prospects for the future, or already contemplating job offers.

 

[Buck]

I do not know about AA's Pilots or Flight Attendants, but the mechanics in Title I are at the bottom in the industry.